Does this include trade routes committing suicide by trying to move through a neutral alien? I'm pretty sure in the original screenshot above I had not done a single aggressive thing towards the aliens. Notice how many are around and how not a single one has any damage on it whatsoever. If trade convoys/vessels can move through 0-aggression green/neutral aliens, that would be great, but I don't think that's the case...
Aliens everywhere! Am I the only one...
- Thread starter Rokdog
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Does this include trade routes committing suicide by trying to move through a neutral alien? I'm pretty sure in the original screenshot above I had not done a single aggressive thing towards the aliens. Notice how many are around and how not a single one has any damage on it whatsoever. If trade convoys/vessels can move through 0-aggression green/neutral aliens, that would be great, but I don't think that's the case...
As I said, you can leash them and sell them, that does not count as aggression. Also, you can build ultrasonic fences, these are kinda wonky atm though. Lastly, If you get the aliens to blue state you can work tiles occupied by them. I avoid attacking alliens until I've expanded and dug out most of the progenitor ruins as the benefits outweight the problems for me. Later on I might clear the nests for extra artifacts too but that rarely happens before t80. Unless I go for scavenging first, which is also a viable strategy, then alien barbecue.
Here's a screenshot of a trade route happily going through a siege worm:
Granted, it is blue now, but it would work even if it was green.
Here's a screenshot of a trade route happily going through a siege worm:
Spoiler :
Granted, it is blue now, but it would work even if it was green.
Ryika
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Yes, they count, too. In fact that's how I tested it, by deliberately running a trade route into an alien the turn it showed up in front of my capital.
Guess that settles it, thanks for the proof. I think I still have a T1 auto save from my game in this thread, I'd like to test it on the sea as well. I swore I never carried out any acts of aggression, city or otherwise, but I could definitely be wrong. Who's wrong or right doesn't matter, this is about the troof!
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The benefits of peacefully collecting the artifacts easily outweighs the costs of a few tiles getting blocked by wandering aliens. Early military units can be used to guard exposed titanium mines.
Later I use Alien Lifeforms -> Explorer leash. Unlike MAMoob I use the extra bodies to ZOC any remaining alien wanderers. I don't think these cost energy maintenance, right?
Playing peacefully with the aliens requires very careful movement of any unit that can move out of its sight - moving onto an alien in the fog will auto-attack and break your peaceful run. Patrol Boats into hydrocorals are the easiest way to ruin your day
Later I use Alien Lifeforms -> Explorer leash. Unlike MAMoob I use the extra bodies to ZOC any remaining alien wanderers. I don't think these cost energy maintenance, right?
Playing peacefully with the aliens requires very careful movement of any unit that can move out of its sight - moving onto an alien in the fog will auto-attack and break your peaceful run. Patrol Boats into hydrocorals are the easiest way to ruin your day
Ryika
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Clearing nests does not prevent you from getting artifacts, with the exception of the few that may be in range of alien nests.
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But it (clearing nests) makes exploration harder. MAMoob and I are both putting up affinity wins in the t140-t160 on Standard/Apollo, so we must be doing something decently. I'm not saying these can't be improved upon, however. Alien artifacts tend to be the least economically useful, I think.
More proof of how wrong I was, very early in the game with aliens that are still green.
Aliens and Trade Routes
Interesting how there's different "green" level behaviors where they look neutral but adopt a few more characteristics of enemies without becoming outright aggressive yet.
Aliens and Trade Routes
Interesting how there's different "green" level behaviors where they look neutral but adopt a few more characteristics of enemies without becoming outright aggressive yet.
Ryika
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Those are pretty standard victory times in Rising Tide, so I'd assume both strategies work. I'm not saying ignoring Aliens is "not a good strategy", I'm saying that the number of Artifacts you can't get if you clear the nests that are close to your territory (= aliens are green most of the time) is very low. As long as you explore 1 step at a time and don't run head-first into miasma-flooded forests it doesn't really slow exploration down that much.
From the quick playtesting I've done in the last 2 hours I'd assume that leaving aliens alone is a bit stronger in a water-based environment (as pretty much all tiles are worth the same anyway and as it's a real blessing to not have those pesky Pod Hunters attacks you every few turns) and a bit weaker in a land-based environment (as explorers are hardly effected while they don't run into alien nests and terrain-yields vary a lot more, which makes guaranteed access to individual tiles more interesting).
I dunno, my explorers tend to get eaten all the time if I wander off far away after angering the aliens. Depending on the biome, aliens often wander far from their nests and running into LOS of one ofren means instant death. And moving 1 tile per turn to ensure you don't run into smth unexpected is just way too slow. I'm not sure what's your approach to exploration, but I usually spam explorers and rush to the most interesting sites ASAP. I usually get 90+% of the ruins, even the ones AI landed on, and around 30 artifacts per game.
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I don't disagree, but what are you basing this claim on?
Nice. I get closer to 20 on average. More work to be done
Ryika
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I wasn't talking about 1 move per turn, I was saying you should take one step after the other instead of moving 2 tiles at once and then finding yourself next to an alien nest with 3 flyers and 2 wolf beetles nearby.
Clearing a nest is followed by around ~2-5 turns of orange aliens, after that explorers are in no danger at all outside of alien nest range.
Based on the fact that I have done ~160-170 victories while clicking through the game when I was testing my mods, that Acken did a turn 150 victory a few days after the game was released and the victory times that others have reported.
Well, pioneers + electromagnetic sensor are optimal for ruin hunting, plus an early xenoantropology (which you can get often, but not all the time) improves the count greatly. To be fair ~30 is the number for the games with xenoantropology. I often loot some additional arties from nests lategame too once I've finished expanding and exploring and built up some basic military. In other games I don't bother with military and nests at all. Depends.
Dunno, in my games even green aliens often eat explorers aftter they've been angered once, especially the water ones.
I won my first (finished) BERT game in 156 turns as ARC too, but that does not mean that's the time you can get by randomly doing anything. It's probably what a player with a decent Civ or BE experience can get without optimizing too much. My best result so far is 138 turns, but to be fair I'm not too good at beelining to the VC and often take a lot of unnecessary stuff that doesn't pay off in the time remaining near the endgame. It's also very luck dependant, you can get like 10 affinity levelups from ruins alone if you're lucky.
Dunno, in my games even green aliens often eat explorers aftter they've been angered once, especially the water ones.
I won my first (finished) BERT game in 156 turns as ARC too, but that does not mean that's the time you can get by randomly doing anything. It's probably what a player with a decent Civ or BE experience can get without optimizing too much. My best result so far is 138 turns, but to be fair I'm not too good at beelining to the VC and often take a lot of unnecessary stuff that doesn't pay off in the time remaining near the endgame. It's also very luck dependant, you can get like 10 affinity levelups from ruins alone if you're lucky.
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Gotcha. Equating Acken's results with standard play may be a little misleading
(Even if he can improve upon that one a considerable amount if he was interested in playing more BERT)
Ryika
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I don't see anything wrong with equating Acken's result after playing like 2 days with what you'd expect your standard strategy to end up with. He himself wrote more than clearly that he hadn't optimized his strategy yet and that he assumes that it's probably possible to win a lot faster.Gotcha. Equating Acken's results with standard play may be a little misleading
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No kidding. I certainly wouldn't mind a reduction in that department. I think exploration affinity should probably be capped at around ~30 XP per affinity. An adjustment to the artifact combos would also be welcome.
Edit: A little OT, but another huge source of variance is the agreements that the AIs have available.
Alright bruh I gotchu! Go might (survivalism), go purity, build a big military (you're stuck on that one, it's necessary), and send units in pairs of 2-3. Use miasmic repulsors for the land aliens. Get a high affinity level so alien killing is easy. Build good amounts of cruisers for safer alien killing. Now you're alien free, have lots of science, and XP.
sugerdady87
Warlord
Nah buddy. They won't attack trade routes nor explorers.
I'll have to test it. In one of my first games, I spent a lot of hammer on TRs that kept getting eaten, and I wasn't attacking any alien with anything at all, city or otherwise, precisely because I didn't want to rile them up. I have directly observed green alien eating trade units that ran into them.
re: Aquatic Aliens, by my experience green Krakens will attack anything on their way, but it's rather unpredictable. Sometimes it will move towards your embarked explorer. Sometimes it won't move towards your gunboat.
Other green aquatic aliens will only attack your boats and units which are close to nests. The trick is that "close" isn't two tiles away, a lot of people seem to think it. "Close" is X tiles away, where X is the number of moves of the unit in question. This works in land too; your marine parked three tiles away from a nest won't be attacked, but your combat rover will. So your patrol boats that are four tiles away from a nest will annoy the aliens and will be attacked. This also holds for boats up to four tiles away from land-locked nests.
That sorta makes exploring the seas with embarked explorers slower, but safer; there will be times when you will be super-careful with your boats, moving them one tile a time, and they'll end the turn four tiles away from a nest inside the fog of war, somewhere you haven't explored yet, two rippers and two dragons will emerge from nowhere and eat it, and you'll be, like, "WTH?"
Other green aquatic aliens will only attack your boats and units which are close to nests. The trick is that "close" isn't two tiles away, a lot of people seem to think it. "Close" is X tiles away, where X is the number of moves of the unit in question. This works in land too; your marine parked three tiles away from a nest won't be attacked, but your combat rover will. So your patrol boats that are four tiles away from a nest will annoy the aliens and will be attacked. This also holds for boats up to four tiles away from land-locked nests.
That sorta makes exploring the seas with embarked explorers slower, but safer; there will be times when you will be super-careful with your boats, moving them one tile a time, and they'll end the turn four tiles away from a nest inside the fog of war, somewhere you haven't explored yet, two rippers and two dragons will emerge from nowhere and eat it, and you'll be, like, "WTH?"
