What Spanish Ulhan??? I did not make the Iberia civ yet??
Alpha testers needed for Steph's mod 2
- Thread starter Steph
- Start date
I've almost finished addintg the French air force.
When doing it, I decided to experiment something.
I've given the French "historical" units. Meaning that for Naval aviation for instance, they have American bought F4U corsair and Helldiver, when the Americans have jet fighter.
Then, they have Super Etendard, which are quite weaker than the American F14
Only late in game do the French get Rafale marine.
I'm thinking that I could keep a similar method for other civilization, and make them closer to history, by having some unit lines not available to same civilizations.
For instance, several civilizations (like Africa) will have no aircraft carrier at all.
So, what do you think I should do:
1) Give units to all the civ to preserve balance, even using "copied" graphics, and if the civilization had no such unit in history?
2) Give good units to civilizations that have such units in history, and a weaker "generic" units to all the others?
3) Give the units only to the civilization that had it?
I may tweak it a bit, by giving to some civilization units from their controller. for instance, India was not independant during WWII, but I could give it one British Aircraft carrier.
Or I'll give to North Africa French tanks and propeller fighters.
When doing it, I decided to experiment something.
I've given the French "historical" units. Meaning that for Naval aviation for instance, they have American bought F4U corsair and Helldiver, when the Americans have jet fighter.
Then, they have Super Etendard, which are quite weaker than the American F14
Only late in game do the French get Rafale marine.
I'm thinking that I could keep a similar method for other civilization, and make them closer to history, by having some unit lines not available to same civilizations.
For instance, several civilizations (like Africa) will have no aircraft carrier at all.
So, what do you think I should do:
1) Give units to all the civ to preserve balance, even using "copied" graphics, and if the civilization had no such unit in history?
2) Give good units to civilizations that have such units in history, and a weaker "generic" units to all the others?
3) Give the units only to the civilization that had it?
I may tweak it a bit, by giving to some civilization units from their controller. for instance, India was not independant during WWII, but I could give it one British Aircraft carrier.
Or I'll give to North Africa French tanks and propeller fighters.
A linked question...
If I go for #3 (or units from their "master" civilization when not available)... what about... nukes? Should only France, America, Britain, Russia, China and India have it?
...
It remains the same. Should nukes be limited to historical nuclear civilizations?
BTW, I have finished the French, and started to clean a bit the mess of the tech trees in the sience advisor screen.
Still far from perfect...
I'm going to Morroco for a business trip this week, so I won't be able to upload before next week end.
Next will be: Britain.
BTW, I have finished the French, and started to clean a bit the mess of the tech trees in the sience advisor screen.
Still far from perfect...
I'm going to Morroco for a business trip this week, so I won't be able to upload before next week end.
Next will be: Britain.
I prefer option #2. Option #3 would be ok.
And nuclear weapons should be available to all civilizations. Perhaps it should be slightly more expensive for civs that never developed them in real life?
Ok, then I'll try to use a mix of 2 and 3.
No unit if did not exist in real history, except
1) Use a "master" civ unit if possible (like Britain for India, French for North Africa)
2) Use a generic unit to avoid unbalance. For instance, I may use a generic "WWII style" aircraft carrier for civ with no AC at all. But it will be completly outperformed by civ with nuclear carriers.
About the nukes, keeping them only for the 6 current nuclear civilizations would unbalanced the game to much.
So I'll simply make them 50% to 100% more expensive.
No unit if did not exist in real history, except
1) Use a "master" civ unit if possible (like Britain for India, French for North Africa)
2) Use a generic unit to avoid unbalance. For instance, I may use a generic "WWII style" aircraft carrier for civ with no AC at all. But it will be completly outperformed by civ with nuclear carriers.
About the nukes, keeping them only for the 6 current nuclear civilizations would unbalanced the game to much.
So I'll simply make them 50% to 100% more expensive.
How expensive should the default nuke be? Let's say it's 240 resources. 100% extra cost would be out of this world. I'd recommend only +25% or +50% resource cost.
Well I was looking at your own website and DL the file StephConversions.
The Uhlan was in that package and I can´t recall I saw it before in your threads. Might have missed it as I mentioned
Consider this Corsair "problem" for France. If they bought an aricraft that another nation developed I say one could do it this way.
Make it appear in one tech after the devolping nation and make it more expensive to justify the idea that it was bought. Just think about all the versions of Migs and F-16 that are flying around many more nations than Us and Russia. Beware of China that developed their own versions of Migs based on the Russian version.
It will be almost like you mentioned that France would have F-4 Corsairs when US have their first jets, and then the Corsair would cost more for France than for US.
My thoughts at least for what value it may have.
Cemo
That's what I did. The F4U Corsair is available to France while the US have the F9F Panther. It may look a bit strange, as France get the Corsair with Jet Engine... But well, the time line is respected.
Then France got F8 Crusader (US has F14), and only when the US start to have F22 does France get the Rafale Marine.
That´s sounds great. Just imagine the F4 Phantom that was used by many others than US.
We got the development of the German AirForce after WW2. That has been several bought versions of others developments.
Never mind that it looks strange to get a high powered prop fighter with the development of Jet Engine. I think it probably work, however the French Air Force did have some unique jets developed themselve.
Perhaps they pop up thanks to Wyrmshadow.... Just wait and see....
Hmm Phantom not being able to land on carrier. It was the great one in Vietnam starting from Carriers and replaced the Crusader as Air Carrier Fighter, then evolved as a fine strike fighter later. Well actually used both by Air Force and Naval Forces. I see jetsfighters for US development Crusader- Phantom - Tomcat (Hornet should be strike fighter replacing perhaps the Intruder). The latest Super Hornet actually replace both Tomcats and old Hornets in a dual role.
Anything to consider Steph ???
We got the development of the German AirForce after WW2. That has been several bought versions of others developments.
Never mind that it looks strange to get a high powered prop fighter with the development of Jet Engine. I think it probably work, however the French Air Force did have some unique jets developed themselve.
Perhaps they pop up thanks to Wyrmshadow.... Just wait and see....
Hmm Phantom not being able to land on carrier. It was the great one in Vietnam starting from Carriers and replaced the Crusader as Air Carrier Fighter, then evolved as a fine strike fighter later. Well actually used both by Air Force and Naval Forces. I see jetsfighters for US development Crusader- Phantom - Tomcat (Hornet should be strike fighter replacing perhaps the Intruder). The latest Super Hornet actually replace both Tomcats and old Hornets in a dual role.
Anything to consider Steph ???
The French have home made land based fighter, but few carrier based, and they appear later.
It will help make each civ more specifici.
For America, I've used the F9 Panther, A4 Skyhawk, Hornet and F14 as naval fighters.
The F14 is stricly interceptor, the F18 is multirole.
The stats of my units are not completly historical, I'm made some concession to gameplay. Also, I cannot represent ALL the possible American units, or I'll need a tech tree with 200 techs for the last eara only!
I don't want each civ to have all the posssible variant of the units that existed at the time, but I want the player to "feel" French or American, when moving his little army.
Today is the 14th of July, France' National Day.
So could there be a better date to release the French update for the mod??
Check the website!
I've also sorted a bit the tech trees in the science advisor. There still are overlaps, and the 4th era is extreamly crowded, but you should be able to see all the techs at least, and for each line they are rouhgly in chronological order.
Uploading in progress...
So could there be a better date to release the French update for the mod??
Check the website!
I've also sorted a bit the tech trees in the science advisor. There still are overlaps, and the 4th era is extreamly crowded, but you should be able to see all the techs at least, and for each line they are rouhgly in chronological order.
Uploading in progress...
Steph for heaven sake the A4 Skyhawk wasn´t a fighter but a light bomber.
Look at wikipedia ...
"The A-4 Skyhawk was an attack aircraft originally designed to operate from United States Navy aircraft carriers."
"Skyhawks were the Navy's primary light bomber over both North Vietnam during the early years of the Vietnam War while the USAF was flying the supersonic F-105 Thunderchief. They would be supplanted by the A-7 Corsair II in the Navy light bomber role"
"The McDonnell F-4 Phantom II was designed as a pure interceptor for the United States Navy, but became a highly successful multi-role aircraft for the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps as well as many other nations."
During the A4 period the US Navy used the old F-8 Crusader than the F4 Phantom as a fighter.
Iw ould say that the Naval jet-fighter upgrade should be F9 Panther- F8 Crusader - F4 Phantom - F14 Tomcats and nowadays the F-18 Super Hornet.
Naval bomber role A1 Skyraider - A4 Sjyhawk - A7 Corsair - F18 Hornet
(F18 multirole should be the final SuperHornet version not the little older Hornet)
Then the F4 Phantom was the multirole fighter-bomber much like an early Super Hornet....
Figure this out, BUT I would say NOT using A4 Skyhawks for fighter roles....
The super thing is that ALL these aircrafts have been made in units over the years....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-4_Skyhawk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attack_aircraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighter_aircraft
I'll playtest it tomorrow evening.
I guess I'll need to be extra precise with you around... I do know that the A in the names stands for attack.
In the mod:
Naval fighter:
F4U Corsair -- > F9F Panther --> F14 Tomcat
Naval fighter bomber
SB2C Helldiver --> A4 Skyhawk --> F18 Hornet
In the post above, I've simply put Panther, Tomcat, Skyhawk and Hornet together as "Naval fighter", in a broad meaning, to list what aircraft can be carrier based, without detailing them much
Doesn't it satisfy you better mister Nitpicker ?
I playtested the French troops a little bit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New game on July 17, 2007
Continents 70%
Normal climate
Temperate temperature
4 billion year age
Roaming barbarians
Standard world size
Default rules.
All random enemies.
Normal AI aggression.
Monarch difficulty.
1. I hope you change Joan d' Arc for someone else.
2. I probably had the greatest starting position imaginable. My settler started on top of a flood plain with an oasis and there was another identical flood plain next to that. I decided to move south to the hills next to these flood plains to build my city. So I'll be absolutely flooded with food from these flood plains.
3. I am 100% convinced that there must be some kind of default military unit that every city can build. My city population will grow so fast that I might have trouble with unhappiness.
4. Why does a Gaul Settler (Fr_01S # Settler) have a transport capacity of 1?
5. I was fortunate enough to pop a free settler from a barbarian goody hut.
6. Mexico started on my island.
7. Mexico seems to be doing very well. It looks like they have 5 cities already and I only have 3.
8. In the civilopedia, some of the bonus resources are missing their icons.
9. The Americans started on my island.
10. It looks like the Americans are doing poorly due to the settler unit population requirement. They have just Washington.
11. Inside my city, the icon for Spices is incorrect. It's using the icon for Silks.
12. I'm a little surprised that I could build a Fr_02I - Spearman. I was expecting to be able to build a + Spearman.
13. Now I'm worried. The Mexicans are moving too many troops to my cities. Yep they attacked.
14. Andes started on my island.
15. One of my workers was captured. Strangely, he didn't move from his spot. I just captured it and it turned into a slave unit, not my original worker.
16. My chariots are getting their asses kicked by Mexican warriors. I am not happy.
17. Ok, I am holding my own, sort of. I built up a small army of Chariots and I'm taking the battle back to the Mexican cities. It looks like if this war went on long enough, it would just be horrible.
18. I don't understand the point of the Fr_02C + Horseman vs. the Fr_02C + Chariot. The cost is the same but the Horseman is weaker.
19. In the city, the icon for Silver is invisible (no icon whatsoever).
20. I ultimately made peace with the Mexicans, and I caused more damage to them than they did to me, but they're still in a stronger position.
21. The bowman seems somewhat useless. The population cost is 1, and it has a tiny defensive bombardmant, but other than that, it's identical to the Warrior unit. It seems like either the cost should be reduced, or the pop cost should be reduced to 0.
22. The civilopedia for Walls is "Bastion".
23. Overall, due to my incredibly limited building space for cities, I'm trying to build far away cities. Using roads through forests, I moved some troops through the woods and I destroyed the roads behind me, to prevent the Mexicans from using them. I'm not sure I'm using my resources wisely. It might be highly advantageous to me if I simply attack Mexico and take some of their cities.
24. Mexican Bronze Swordsman look kind of strange. At Elite, they have 6 hp. The unit in question is 02L - Bronze Swordsman (Mx) and there is also a 2L - Bronze Swordsman (Mx). I don't get it. And they declared war on me again. I lost about 6 Chariots in 2 turns.
The Mexican Bronze Swordsmen are so much better than my Chariots.
25. Alright, I had to destroy one of my own cities through Abandonment, then I lost another. It looks bad. The Mexican army is just too big. The Mexican troops are just simply better than mine. The Mexican Bronze Spearman is a gorgeous unit. Probably the most beautiful unit in any mod I've ever seen.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New game on July 17, 2007
Continents 70%
Normal climate
Temperate temperature
4 billion year age
Roaming barbarians
Standard world size
Default rules.
All random enemies.
Normal AI aggression.
Monarch difficulty.
1. I hope you change Joan d' Arc for someone else.
2. I probably had the greatest starting position imaginable. My settler started on top of a flood plain with an oasis and there was another identical flood plain next to that. I decided to move south to the hills next to these flood plains to build my city. So I'll be absolutely flooded with food from these flood plains.
3. I am 100% convinced that there must be some kind of default military unit that every city can build. My city population will grow so fast that I might have trouble with unhappiness.
4. Why does a Gaul Settler (Fr_01S # Settler) have a transport capacity of 1?
5. I was fortunate enough to pop a free settler from a barbarian goody hut.
6. Mexico started on my island.
7. Mexico seems to be doing very well. It looks like they have 5 cities already and I only have 3.
8. In the civilopedia, some of the bonus resources are missing their icons.
9. The Americans started on my island.
10. It looks like the Americans are doing poorly due to the settler unit population requirement. They have just Washington.
11. Inside my city, the icon for Spices is incorrect. It's using the icon for Silks.
12. I'm a little surprised that I could build a Fr_02I - Spearman. I was expecting to be able to build a + Spearman.
13. Now I'm worried. The Mexicans are moving too many troops to my cities. Yep they attacked.
14. Andes started on my island.
15. One of my workers was captured. Strangely, he didn't move from his spot. I just captured it and it turned into a slave unit, not my original worker.
16. My chariots are getting their asses kicked by Mexican warriors. I am not happy.
17. Ok, I am holding my own, sort of. I built up a small army of Chariots and I'm taking the battle back to the Mexican cities. It looks like if this war went on long enough, it would just be horrible.
18. I don't understand the point of the Fr_02C + Horseman vs. the Fr_02C + Chariot. The cost is the same but the Horseman is weaker.
19. In the city, the icon for Silver is invisible (no icon whatsoever).
20. I ultimately made peace with the Mexicans, and I caused more damage to them than they did to me, but they're still in a stronger position.
21. The bowman seems somewhat useless. The population cost is 1, and it has a tiny defensive bombardmant, but other than that, it's identical to the Warrior unit. It seems like either the cost should be reduced, or the pop cost should be reduced to 0.
22. The civilopedia for Walls is "Bastion".
23. Overall, due to my incredibly limited building space for cities, I'm trying to build far away cities. Using roads through forests, I moved some troops through the woods and I destroyed the roads behind me, to prevent the Mexicans from using them. I'm not sure I'm using my resources wisely. It might be highly advantageous to me if I simply attack Mexico and take some of their cities.
24. Mexican Bronze Swordsman look kind of strange. At Elite, they have 6 hp. The unit in question is 02L - Bronze Swordsman (Mx) and there is also a 2L - Bronze Swordsman (Mx). I don't get it. And they declared war on me again. I lost about 6 Chariots in 2 turns.
The Mexican Bronze Swordsmen are so much better than my Chariots.25. Alright, I had to destroy one of my own cities through Abandonment, then I lost another. It looks bad. The Mexican army is just too big. The Mexican troops are just simply better than mine. The Mexican Bronze Spearman is a gorgeous unit. Probably the most beautiful unit in any mod I've ever seen.
Thanks again for your excellent beta test.
I'll check if some issues need to be solved this evening.
Here are some answers to make you wait.
What about a weaker warrior, with no population, and a stronger warrior, with population? Would it solve your problem?
Result : ancient settlers can't go create oversea colonies (except for Greece). You need to wait for more advanced settlers before colonizing the new world.
Cost should be 20 for horse, and 25 for chariot. And last, the chariot has a -1 HP, not the horseman
However, there should not be two types of BronzeSwordmen. I suppose some are + version and some are - (only newly checked civ are using the + and - notation).
I'll check if some issues need to be solved this evening.
Here are some answers to make you wait.
Yes, I do plan to change all the leaders when I'm finished with the units
Yes, having flood plains with lots of food is a very good start. Think Egypt and the nile.
Is the goal to reduce your population? Then the problem is the warrior cost no population IIRC, so it can be build in any city...
What about a weaker warrior, with no population, and a stronger warrior, with population? Would it solve your problem?
They also have "transport missile only" and "transport foot only", the result being they can't transport anything, but having a transport of 1 they can't be loaded.
Result : ancient settlers can't go create oversea colonies (except for Greece). You need to wait for more advanced settlers before colonizing the new world.
Mexico still uses "old" settles line, they may be a bit unbalanced compared to US and France.
Will check. However, don't forget: Avoid the civilopedia to check resources!!! If you look at a resource with to many units, you'll get some problem.
America is supposed to be a slow starter, but later in game they can go faster than any other civ... If they survive.
Did you have access to copper?
Normally, every captured worker should turn into slave.
Chariot are weak defender, always try to attack with them.
Horseman is not wheeled, can go in forest, moutains, etc. Chariot can not.
Cost should be 20 for horse, and 25 for chariot. And last, the chariot has a -1 HP, not the horseman
I see if I can make them a little more interesting, probably reduced the pop cost to 0 for support units. But Gaul bowmen were not particularily reknown, were they?
Military expansion is sometime the best solution. Don't forget if you destroy your roads, you'll won't be able to get your resources.
Chariot have a -1 HP, the Bronze Swordsmen shouldn't. But as I've updated the stats of America and France only so far, the other civ may be unbalanced yet. I will slowly check all the civ for better balance. In the meantime, expect to have your ass kicked by some uber AI troops from time to time. It's good to teach you humility anyway24. Mexican Bronze Swordsman look kind of strange. At Elite, they have 6 hp. The unit in question is 02L - Bronze Swordsman (Mx) and there is also a 2L - Bronze Swordsman (Mx). I don't get it. And they declared war on me again. I lost about 6 Chariots in 2 turns.
However, there should not be two types of BronzeSwordmen. I suppose some are + version and some are - (only newly checked civ are using the + and - notation).That's an Aztec spearman converted from American Conquest
I think the warrior unit from Tribal Wars should be available from the start.
Hmm, make a note of that in the Civilopedia to let players know why a settler would have such strange attributes.
No, I didn't at the time. So nevermind about that one.
Well, the costs are the same for both. The civilopedia should have a note for the -1 hp. I had to fight a bunch of Veteran Bronze Swordsmen with Regular Chariots. So that's a 5 hp vs. 3 hp difference. I was the attacker with my chariots, and they didn't have much of a chance against the Bronze Swordsmen.
If it matters, I really doubt the Aztec soldiers looked like that historically.
Overall, I'm very surprised that the AI performs as well as it does in this mod. The extreme difficulty of this mod makes me think the AI would have trouble compared to the default civ game.
