Altered maps

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RedRalphWiggum said:
Its just for fun. the Celtic nations are one union
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Pan-Celticism is a 19th century romantic myth and has never held any sway among the greater population. Scottish, Irish and Welsh nationalism (not to mention Cornish, Manx and Breton, which, as mentioned, you have neglected) are independent (albeit related) movements. Aside from anything else, Irish nationalism began in the 19th century and was largely resolved during the interwar period*, while Scottish and Welsh nationalism never surfaced as mainstream movements until the later 20th century, and even now remain far from dominant.

*The exception being the staunchly Unionst British-Protestant population of Ulster, which your map seems to ignore.

[/rant]
 
Traitorfish said:
Pan-Celticism is a 19th century romantic myth and has never held any sway among the greater population. Scottish, Irish and Welsh nationalism (not to mention Cornish, Manx and Breton, which, as mentioned, you have neglected) are independent (albeit related) movements. Aside from anything else, Irish nationalism began in the 19th century and was largely resolved during the interwar period*, while Scottish and Welsh nationalism never surfaced as mainstream movements until the later 20th century, and even now remain far from dominant.

*The exception being the staunchly Unionst British-Protestant population of Ulster, which your map seems to ignore.

[/rant]
Click to expand...

Missed the first sentence of the bit you quoted? ;)
 
This was on the cover of 'The Economist' a few years back, it still makes me laugh when i see it =)

u_s_view_of_world.jpg
 
Traitorfish said:
Pan-Celticism is a 19th century romantic myth and has never held any sway among the greater population. Scottish, Irish and Welsh nationalism (not to mention Cornish, Manx and Breton, which, as mentioned, you have neglected) are independent (albeit related) movements. Aside from anything else, Irish nationalism began in the 19th century and was largely resolved during the interwar period*, while Scottish and Welsh nationalism never surfaced as mainstream movements until the later 20th century, and even now remain far from dominant.

*The exception being the staunchly Unionst British-Protestant population of Ulster, which your map seems to ignore.

[/rant]
Click to expand...

Leaving aside the fact that this is a humourous thread and the fact "Pan- Celtism"
was never mentioned (as RedRalph points out), can I comment on your assertions?

You're right that much of the Celtic mythology on which various nationalisms are based are
19th.C literary inventions (Sir Walter Scott and others have a lot to answer for). But they
do have a real basis in ethnicity, linguistics and historical fact. There are in fact two groups;
one comprising the Irish and Scottish Gaels plus the Manx; the other of the Welsh, Cornish
and Bretons. Each group differs markedly in language between them, but share more than 90%
in vocabulary and grammar within them.
In the Cornish case, they were a separate kingdom in pre-Norman times, as were the Welsh
and the Bretons. In fact the Cornish were called the South Welsh by the Saxons and much of
the Breton population came as refugees from Cornwall fleeing the Norman invaders. Sadly, the
last native Cornish speaker died before WW2 though the language survives with a thousand
or more speakers and is taught to degree level in some universities. Cornish national identity
remains strong though there is little call for independence. Even though as late as 2003, more
than 57% of Cornish residents voted in favour of an autonomous national assembly similiar to
the Welsh and Scottish examples.

As for your mention of the Unionist population of Ulster, it hardly compares as a distinct
cultural group being merely the expression of political dominance by the descendants of English
and Scottish Protestant squatters shipped wholesale to the "plantation" province to colonise
and subjugate the indigenous Irish Catholic population. No more of a cultural group than say,
British colonial functionaries in the Indian Raj or slave-owners in Jamaica. IMO;)
 
RedRalphWiggum said:
Missed the first sentence of the bit you quoted? ;)
Click to expand...
Quite possibly, yes... :blush:

jessiecat said:
You're right that much of the Celtic mythology on which various nationalisms are based are 19th.C literary inventions (Sir Walter Scott and others have a lot to answer for). But they do have a real basis in ethnicity, linguistics and historical fact. There are in fact two groups; one comprising the Irish and Scottish Gaels plus the Manx; the other of the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons. Each group differs markedly in language between them, but share more than 90% in vocabulary and grammar within them..
Click to expand...
I'm aware that the Gaels* and Britons represent two distinct ethnicities, which was partly my point... The two groups diverged millenia ago, and since then there has never been any united Insular Celtic ethnicity. In fact, even the term "Celt" was never applied to the Insular Celts until the 19th century, having previously been used to refer only to continental Celts, with the Gaels and Britons being viewed as distinct ethnic groups.
Even within Scotland, the idea of a single Celtic ethnicity is a fiction, ignoring, as it does, the historical divide between the Norse-Gaelic Highlands and Isles and Anglo-British Lowlands.
My point was that the idea of a single "Celtic" ethnicity is essentially fictitious, so the chances of a single "Celtic" nation ever arising are absolutely minimal. Admittedly, as Ralph said, the map was just for fun, but, still, that doesn't mean plopping "Mordor" over the Balkans would make sense, so why does this?

*The Manx are still Gaels, just as the Irish and Scottish Gaels are.

As for your mention of the Unionist population of Ulster, it hardly compares as a distinct cultural group being merely the expression of political dominance by the descendants of English and Scottish Protestant squatters shipped wholesale to the "plantation" province to colonise and subjugate the indigenous Irish Catholic population.
Click to expand...
They hold a different religion and nationality, and many speak the non-Irish dialect of Ulster Scots (or at least did historically). If nothing else, the fact that they two groups managed to spend a good chunk of the later 20th century engaging in armed conflict represents a significant, albeit far from overwhelming, distinction.

Also, I'm aware that "Pan-Celticism" was never directly referenced, but, honestly, what else do you suppose a "union" of "Celtic nations" is supposed to represent?
 
Winner said:
Too bad you can't find the city on the map :p :crazyeye:

You marked Nitra or some other city in Slovakia, you moron :lol:
Click to expand...


Winner, do you want to stop calling people morons, idiots, stupid etc? You do it almost every day you are on. I'm not going to report but please just give it a rest. that said, this was indeed a bit of a moronic oversight.
 
RedRalphWiggum said:
Winner, do you want to stop calling people morons, idiots, stupid etc?
Click to expand...

In this case, you are a moron :p The thread is moronic, the map is moronic and your lack of even the basic ability to look at the map and find the city you want to ridicule is more than moronic :lol:

You do it almost every day you are on. I'm not going to report but please just give it a rest. that said, this was indeed a bit of a moronic oversight.
Click to expand...

Nah, I am not doing it unless someone really deserves it. This is the case, and I was kidding, not that it matters now :p
 
Ha! Nobody wants Brussels.
 
Winner said:
In this case, you are a moron :p The thread is moronic, the map is moronic and your lack of even the basic ability to look at the map and find the city you want to ridicule is more than moronic :lol:



Nah, I am not doing it unless someone really deserves it. This is the case, and I was kidding, not that it matters now :p
Click to expand...

Hmmm.... stuff like this is why you're so popular on the boards
 
Zarn said:
Ha! Nobody wants Brussels.
Click to expand...

Brussels appears to be part of German territory.

Map of Europe, circa 2065 (meh, had to think of a date). The Balkans are roughly the same. Slovenia, Croatia, and the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina enjoy EU membership, but are mostly autonomous bits of the Union. The Union has forged itself into a global powerhouse, almost federalised. Norway, Sweden, and Iceland have formed their own Union, while Russia has absorbed Belarus and eastern Ukraine. Serbia has expanded back into Montenegro, and also occupies the Republika Sprska of modern-day Bosnia. Finally, Albania has taken Kosovo while Macedonia has been taken by Greece.

Europe.jpg
 
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