Altered maps

[Verbose]

About the stuff Winner posted about a possible war in Scandinavia:

Yeah, that seems to add up with the expectations I know of from Swedish and Danish planning. Soviet claims at the time was that Sweden would be wrapped up inside a week. They were talking tough obviously, a bit of intimidation tactics, but I think we can assume that was what they were aiming for. Cutting across the Swedish arctic, once they cleared away the regular mechanised infantry on defence up there, they would have been met by minefields galore and harassed by stay-behind arctic rangers.

The Soviet Union will want to be able to exit the Baltic fleet through the Sound. To do that the Baltic will have to become friendly skies to it. Since the Baltic in the 70-80's was the airspace in the world most heavily saturated with military aircraft, expect a massive air-campaign. The Soviet Union alone in the 80's had 3000 bombers stationed along the Baltic coast.

To help make a route out of the Baltic safe the simplest solutions is to cut across southern Sweden, securing the large port of Gothenburg. Which is also why the Danish army in the 80's to Swedish knowledge planned to ferry their tanks, after a substantial Soviet amphib landing (opposed, as far as it would go), over to the Swedish side to meet the Soviet armour there rather than in Denmark.

 

[RedRalph]

Don't fall into the abbyss of moral relativism. In WW2, nobody knew what nukes were capable off, and the situation in which the US used it to prevent much greater massacre was entirely different from these Cold War scenarios.

you odnt actually believe that do you?

Soviet planners were seemingly totally oblivious to any care for the civilians. They'd just nuke them, gas them, massacre them, drive them out of their homes and shoot them on the roads (in order to hamper the movement of NATO reinforcements), use them as shields, whatever else necessary to crush the capitalist pigs. Their "liberation" of Europe would probably result in the greatest genocide in human history with hundreds of millions of dead people.

and you dont think NATO would have done the same to WP (your own country among them) in retaliation? You dont think NATO would have responded in kind or even used them first?

Funny that you criticize Israel for the very light civilian casualties in Gaza, but you seem to have no problem relativizing this. Hypocrisy again?

the casualties are not very light in Gaza as any idiot can tell you. This would have been an utter catastrophe; the most horrific event in human history, but to pretend that only the WP would have done it is laughable.

 

[holy king]

here we go again.

 

[Winner]

you odnt actually believe that do you?

I do They knew it theoretically, but nobody could envision that.

and you dont think NATO would have done the same to WP (your own country among them) in retaliation? You dont think NATO would have responded in kind or even used them first?

Bože

There is a difference between retaliation and careful planning and preparing for a genocidal campaign.

the casualties are not very light in Gaza as any idiot can tell you. This would have been an utter catastrophe; the most horrific event in human history, but to pretend that only the WP would have done it is laughable.

Meh, I am losing time with you. You're totally incapable of recognizing that one side was simply wrong (no, it was evil) and capable of everything while the other was just trying to defend itself. In your logic, the one who kills someone in a self-defense is just as bad as the attacker.

It actually explains your views on many other issues: Russia, Israel, Georgie etc.

 

[dosed150]

About the stuff Winner posted about a possible war in Scandinavia:

Yeah, that seems to add up with the expectations I know of from Swedish and Danish planning. Soviet claims at the time was that Sweden would be wrapped up inside a week. They were talking tough obviously, a bit of intimidation tactics, but I think we can assume that was what they were aiming for. Cutting across the Swedish arctic, once they cleared away the regular mechanised infantry on defence up there, they would have been met by minefields galore and harassed by stay-behind arctic rangers.

The Soviet Union will want to be able to exit the Baltic fleet through the Sound. To do that the Baltic will have to become friendly skies to it. Since the Baltic in the 70-80's was the airspace in the world most heavily saturated with military aircraft, expect a massive air-campaign. The Soviet Union alone in the 80's had 3000 bombers stationed along the Baltic coast.

To help make a route out of the Baltic safe the simplest solutions is to cut across southern Sweden, securing the large port of Gothenburg. Which is also why the Danish army in the 80's to Swedish knowledge planned to ferry their tanks, after a substantial Soviet amphib landing (opposed, as far as it would go), over to the Swedish side to meet the Soviet armour there rather than in Denmark.

i think the soviets would have met pretty heavy resistance if hey went in to scandanavia i mean the finns fought back pretty well last time and during the cold war sweden had a ridiculous number of decent fighter planes, most of those soviet bombers probably wouldnt have reached targets in sweden

 

[RedRalph]

i think the soviets would have met pretty heavy resistance if hey went in to scandanavia i mean the finns fought back pretty well last time and during the cold war sweden had a ridiculous number of decent fighter planes, most of those soviet bombers probably wouldnt have reached targets in sweden

Its not even certain the Finns would have fought the USSR, unlikely even. finland had a treaty with the Soviets to resist by force any attack on the USSR using its territory, it wouldnt have been to far of a stretch for the Red Army to get access to Finish territory, although I admit it would have been far from a certainty.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Look! An Altered map! Sort of!

Place names translated directly into English.

 

[Rossiya]

That's fantastic. Any other maps like that?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

There is a whole atlas that this is from. I found the map in question at the Strange Maps blog, specifically this post.

 

[RedRalph]

Its a great site isnt it Eran? Is there anyway to get email updates from it? Never been able to see a way to do it

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Not that I know of, I just check it every day or so. It is pretty cool.

 

[Verbose]

Its not even certain the Finns would have fought the USSR, unlikely even. finland had a treaty with the Soviets to resist by force any attack on the USSR using its territory, it wouldnt have been to far of a stretch for the Red Army to get access to Finish territory, although I admit it would have been far from a certainty.

Considering the USSR put restrictions on the Finnish military, question is how much they could have done.

 

[Mirc]

This is pretty unbelievable:

Polish 2007 election results with pre-WW2 German borders superimposed.

 

[Dachs]

What's the modern Poland map showing in the color gradations?

 

[Mirc]

Edited for info (before even seeing your post, I just realized I hadn't included an explanation).

 

[Dachs]

Yeah, those pre-Versailles borders are pretty cool. What about tying it to something economic? Warsaw and the western regions of the country are generally better off, right?

 

[silver 2039]

Those areas of Poland need to rejoin Germany.

 

[Dachs]

Those areas of Poland need to rejoin Germany.

Along with that area of Russia.

 

[silver 2039]

No that should stay Russian and Russia should eat the Baltics, Bealrus, and Ukraine. And then Germany and Russia can go to war over that land. It'll be awesome.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

All the Germans got kicked out of the German parts of Poland at the end of World War II, the article accompanying that map explained that wasn't the cause (they weren't sure what if anything was).