Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!

So? Which alternate histories appeal to you?

  • Rome Never Falls

    Votes: 58 35.8%
  • Axis Wins WWII

    Votes: 55 34.0%
  • D-Day Fails

    Votes: 41 25.3%
  • No Fort Sumter, No Civil War

    Votes: 32 19.8%
  • No Waterloo

    Votes: 33 20.4%
  • Islamic Europe

    Votes: 43 26.5%
  • No Roman Empire

    Votes: 37 22.8%
  • Carthage wins Punic Wars

    Votes: 51 31.5%
  • Alexander the Great survives his bout with malaria

    Votes: 54 33.3%
  • Mesoamerican Empires survived/Americas not discovered

    Votes: 48 29.6%
  • Americans lose revolutionary war/revolutionary war averted

    Votes: 44 27.2%
  • Years of Rice and Salt (Do it again!)

    Votes: 24 14.8%
  • Recolonization of Africa

    Votes: 20 12.3%
  • Advanced Native Americans

    Votes: 59 36.4%
  • Successful Zimmerman note

    Votes: 35 21.6%
  • Germany wins WWI

    Votes: 63 38.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 31 19.1%

  • Total voters
    162
Of Eagles and Lions
an alternate history timeline.

The year is 1850, and much of Europe remains under the grip of the French Empire. Napoleon Bonaparte has passed away in the last year. 5 million people visited the funeral procession in Paris. France cried, but there was still hope left, as Napoleon II took the riegns of leadership. In our world, Napoleon the Second was never recognized, and never ruled. He lived his short life out as an prisoner, and shortly succumbed to sickness and died. In THIS timeline, however, Napoleon II does not die, and instead, becomes a highly competant leader, as great as Napoleon himself, perhaps, and with even greater foresight than that of his father's, a symptom of being surrounded by the Grande Armee's greatest men.

napoleonin1792.jpg


The Years of Triumph: 1805-1815


These were the years of great success, the years of conquest on which the empire was founded on. It began with the victory at Austerlitz, and the subsequent peace of Pressburg. It was a horrible defeat for the Austrians, and beyond the clauses establishing "peace and amity" and the Austrian withdrawal from the Third Coalition, the treaty also took substantial European territories from Austria. The gains of the previous treaties of Campo Formio and Lunéville were reiterated and Austrian holdings in Italy and Bavaria were ceded to France. Certain Austrian holdings in Germany were passed to the French allies - the King of Bavaria, the King of Württemberg and the Elector of Baden. Austrian claims on those German states were renounced without exception. The treaty marked the effective end of the Holy Roman Empire, Francis II became instead Emperor Francis I of Austria and a new entity the Confederation of the Rhine was later created by Napoleon. An indemnity of 40 million francs to France was also included in the treaty, a indemnity which Austria has never really recovered.

Napoleon proceeded to form the Confederation of the Rhine, French puppet states of Germany. In all they numbered about 19, and had a total population of about 15 million people, they served as a huge manpool for the Grande Armee. The Confederation was lead by Bavaria, and absorbed most of the western Prussian territories after the French victories at Jena and Austerdat.

After Elyau, the peace of Tilsit was signed, and the Europe was at peace, but it was not even given time to take a deep breath, and soon Napoleon was at it again. Napoleon marched into Spain, sweeping away Barcelona and by December, Madrid. Resistance was heavy, but instead of having his marshalls do the work for him, in this timeline Napoleon went directly into France, leading the Grande Armee of about 300,000 men himself. In the west the peace treaties still held, the Austrians, Russians, and Prussians still weary of their humiliation in 1807 at Tilsit. The British declare war on the French, but are without allies while France seems on the verge of victory.

Portugal is initially taken by France, but Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Welington, lands and sends the French retreating. This victory starts to turn around French luck, and guerillas aided by Britain start heating things up. Soon though, after a short trip to Paris, Napoleon is back, and the French beat the British in open field. Joseph Bonaparte, Napoleon's brother, is proclaimed King of Spain, and in turn Portugal is absorbed into the Spanish crown. Guerilla fighting continues, but without British support it is eventually stiffled.

The Austrians, wrongly confident that the French are still preoccupied in the Peninsula, launch a surpise attack into Bavaria, this fails, however, and after the Austrian defeat at Wagram, the Austrians are again forced to peace, and are again forced to pay large war indemnities. The Confederation of the Rhine effectively stopped Prussia from trying anything, while Russia quietly kept their treaties with France.

1815-1835: Europe is redrawn and the Sublime Porte stumbles down a flight of stairs

After Wagram, Europe was peaceful for quite a few years. Napoleon uses this time to rebuild the French Navy and rebuild the Empire's industrial capacity. France's population is still a tad smaller than it was, but is quickly stabalizing. The Navy, meanwhile, is getting more and more funds, and soon a naval 'cold war' of sorts starts between England and France. Napoleon dominates the mediterranean, while the British still maintain an effective hold over the North atlantic. French ships are larger than their British counterparts, but are less mobile, while British ships outpace their French counterparts, but are armed with less guns.

The British bid their time, strengthening their colonies, and navy. The French revamped the Grande Armee, introducing more effecient muskets and artillery. But then came the 'Athenian Incident'. 500 Greeks were executed on the streets by Ottoman soldiers, after peacefully protesting for Greek independence. Napoleon, setting his eyes on colonies and an eventual dream of India, took this incident and blew it out of proportion, declaring war on the Ottoman Empire soon thereafter. Austria followed suit and so did Russia. The French took Algeria, Tunis, and Suez, while making Greece a French ally. The Austrians took much of the balkans from the Ottomans, while the Russians took Crimea. The Sublime Porte was crippled, and casualties for the Ottomans were horrendous, while European casualties were at an all time low. The war took about a year at most, and Egypt was turned into its own, seperate state from the Ottomans.

Steam power was also beginning to be first introduced around this time, and the first steamships, the French SS Algiers and the English HMS Trenton, enter service as small gunboats. The Algiers smashed a fleet of 10 Ottoman Frigates on its own off the coast of Alexandria, owing to the fact that the Ottoman ships were horribly outdated, still using ships from 100 years before.

Stonewal.jpg


1835-1850: Delusions of Grandeur

The French enter the 30's with an even larger empire than before. France holds claims to much of North Africa, and the Grande Armee is still unrivaled on land, perhaps except from the Russian army, whose wieght in numbers and modern weaponry makes them quite formidable. French troops adopt an early breach loading rifle, but have yet to use this in their artillery. The first ironclads enter service within the French and English navy, and the rest of the world quietly watches.

Prussia, slowly, but surely, is rebuilding her army and retraining her troops, in hopes of one day defeating France, but is still technically allied. England is in 'Splendid Isolation' and is basically shut out from the continent by the French continental system. The English still hold the strongest navy, but the French have been faster to modernize.

Russia, the sleeping bear, is industrialising herself, trying to bring herself on par with western nations. Russia is pretty much nuetral, and relations with France are quite good. Austria is now a second rate power, and holds no Imperial claim as it once did. Austrian soldiers are poorly trained, but numerous, although it is hard to coordinate such a force. The diversity of the Austrian empire brings with it challanges.

In the 40's, the French have turned their southern Indian base of the Pondicherry into a powerhouse, a rich port city. However, the British still dominate Indian markets, and Napoleon looks on quietly. He is an old man now, in his 70's, but still he contains in him great ambition. Railroads begin a widespread introduction, and all of France in addition to the lowlands are connected by rail.

Sweden is ruled by the old Marshall Bernadotte, who was adopted by the childless king, and Bernadotte, although he used to be a marshall, keeps nuetral in most european affairs.

Wellington, in an odd string of luck, became Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, and was much more succesful in politics than he was in RL. He runs on a Tory platform, and pursues an agressive anti-french policy.

In 1849, Trajedy struck. Napoleon silently passed away in his sleep. All of France wept, and the old marshalls (how ever many were still alive) attendend, along with 5 million Frenchmen. Wellington himself was reported to have attended. Shortly thereafter, Napoleon II was proclaimed as Empereur of France. The restoration and expansion of the empire has been his main policy, and under Francis Napoleon Bonaparte II, the colonies have been greatly expanded, and French trading fleets begin to enroach upon Annamese and Siamese natives in Asia. Francis has also continued his fathers dream of reaching India from the mediterranean, and the Suez Canal is secretly under construction, hid from the British.

And now the stage is set.
 
Not bad, but I doubt Napoleon would live until 1849. Also, Russia already had Crimea for some time BEFORE Napoleonic Wars. Much more likely is taking Romania and Turkish Armenia.
 
Btw - that reminds me. There was, in late 18th century, a drastic Austro-Russian plan regarding the Ottoman Empire. It involved a recreation of a Byzantine Empire in Anatolia and the Balkans (presumably the Austrians would also get Serbia and Bosnia while Russians would get Romania). The Austrians, however, suffered a humiliating defeat in OTL and had to drop out. Suppose they didn't? I realize that it will bring about a confrontation with the British, but maybe if a suitable compromise candidate for the Byzantine Emperor is found...
 
But wouldn't you think that the Turkish Muslims would have easily rebelled against any Christian Emperor?
 
But wouldn't you think that the Turkish Muslims would have easily rebelled against any Christian Emperor?

That huge Russo-Austrian army isn't just for the show there, you know... ;)

Other then that, ofcourse they will rebel. I think effective Byzantine control, in Anatolia, would only be established in the north and the west, before they are strong enough to deal with the rebels anyway.
 
das said:
That huge Russo-Austrian army isn't just for the show there, you know... ;)

Other then that, ofcourse they will rebel. I think effective Byzantine control, in Anatolia, would only be established in the north and the west, before they are strong enough to deal with the rebels anyway.


well, this is before all that ethni ccleaning and moving between Greek and Turkey so local populations of christians would probably be of help to the effort...
 
OOC: Exactly, Xen. I am not sure about the northern coast (but, then again, Armenians...), but the western coast was definitely with a large amount of Greeks. There is also a theory that the majority of the Anatolian population consisted of half-way assimilated Greeks. But that theory I doubt, though I realize that its probable that there were more Greeks then it would seem out there.

Here's a relevant teaser from my latest timeline, about Seven Years War. Now that you reminded me about it...

And please note that the timeline itself is in a real timeline (the list of events with dates) format. This teaser is not.

IC:

Content with the relative success of their Polish venture of 1766-1768, Regents Maria Thereza (of Austria) and Catherine Auguste (of Russia) turned their eyes south, at their long-time enemy the Ottoman Empire. Sultan rather hastily declared himself in support to the Saxons in the Polish Civil War, and thus was in war with Russia and Austria. While France, Spain and English Commonwealth were tied down in the English Revolutionary War, the two Regents (Regentesses?) felt that the time is ripe to solve the Ottoman Problem once and for all before anybody else could interfere.

The early Ottoman offensives during the Polish Civil War have already exhausted themselves. Temesvar 1767 was one of the last Ottoman military victories - already then it was seen when getman Pugachev, the "Cossack General", utterly crushed the Ottoman force at Bender soon after Temesvar.

The Polish Civil War was over in May 1768. The Byzantine War has begun - Catherine and Maria met in Vienna, and decided to carve up the Ottoman Empire, especially as Ali Bey of Egypt and Suleyman Aga of Iraq were pushing the Turks all the way back into Anatolia. It was then decided to create a Christian Byzantine Empire in the place of the Muslim Ottoman one - and, more importantly, an empire grateful and dependant (due to Muslim populations in Anatolia) on Austria and Russia.

The war immediatelly didn't go well for the Turks. Austrians pushed the Turks back and defeated them at Banja Luka, pouring into Bosnia. The Russians were besieging Kaffa in Crimea and assaulting Izmail and Ochakov. Those two assaults were very costly, but suceeded, and after them, in 1769, the Ottomans were firmly on the retreat - especially as Ali Bey pushed them out of Syria. Pugachev won at Bucharest; Austrians outmaneuvered the retreating Ottomans in Macedonnia, seizing Durazzo and capturing a large Ottoman army. And finally, Konstantin Nomikos, the "Regent Choice" future emperor of the Byzantine Empire, raised a massive Greek uprising. The Ottomans regroupped in Roumelia, and inflicted a series of defeats on the anti-Turkish coalition, but eventually, they were crushed by the joint Russian-Austrian force at Skopje and Filibe.

Throughout 1771, Constantinople was placed under siege. Only barely did Sultan Mustafa escape certain death in the city and retreated to Anatolia. There, he prepared his final stand. He signed peace with the Mamluk rebels, and prepared for the infidel onslaught.

In 1771-1772, the Austrian-Russian-Greek army landed in Anatolia, but the first attacks against the Ottomans failed - the Turks dug in well. But finally, in May 1772, in the Battle at Bursa, Mustafa III died. This prevented the Ottomans from breaking the back of a Russo-Greek force, and led to the collapse and disintegration of the remnants of the Turkish army.

By the year's end, the Empire was dead. Russia annexed Crimea, Romania and Bulgaria. Austria annexed Serbia, Bosnia and large parts of Macedonnia. Egypt becomes independent and seized Hedjaz, Palestine and Syria. Iraq too becomes independant independent. France is given Crete, Spain is given Cyprus, and Venice is given Rhodes to make them accept the Byzantine Empire as a fait accompli. The rest of the Ottoman Empire became the Byzantine Empire, under Konstantin XIII Nomikos. It was very hard to control southern and inner Anatolia especially, so the Russian and Austrian forces staid to help out and make sure that Konstantin doesn't stray away.
 
twould b interesting, me thinks, to see a britian and france prop up a powerful "Rome" to counter th epropping of a powerful new "Byzantium"
 
Interesting. One wonders how the papacy would have reacted to the recreation of a strong Orthodox state. And Austria (I believe) was predominantly Catholic, so how would this have affected the nations of Catholicism, in where they side...
 
reacted to the recreation of a strong Orthodox state.

Um... no Russia to see here... p:

Anyway:
twould b interesting, me thinks, to see a britian and france prop up a powerful "Rome" to counter th epropping of a powerful new "Byzantium"

All Power to the Pope? :lol:

Anyway, Britain and France cooperating? Not in this timeline! (there is, however, a Polish-Swedish-Rhenish "League of Armed Neutrality" rapidly expanding across Italian and German principalities which plans to fight Austria, Russia and Byzantium upon any other attempt of expansion. France and Spain are likely to join them soon)
And Austria (I believe) was predominantly Catholic, so how would this have affected the nations of Catholicism, in where they side...

Austria WAS predominantly Catholic, but how does it matter in mid-18th century? The alliances are largely out of geopolitical neccesity, not religious reasons at this point.

Major power blocks in Europe, 1775:
- Vienna Pact (Russia, Austria, Byzantium).
- Republican Coalition (English Commonwealth, Denmark-Norway)
- Bourbon Family Compact (France, Spain)
- League of Armed Neutrality (Sweden, Poland-Saxonnia, Rhenish Palatinate and assorted German and Italian minors).

VP hates the Bourbons. Bourbons hate the VP. LAN is trying to prevent Russo-Austrian domination, but it wary of the Bourbons as well.

Everybody hates the Republics and vice versa.
 
ahh around the time of William of Orange and the battle of Hochstadt as you continentals know it (Duke of marlborough Blenheim) I suppose that that would make Britain a weak state (presuming it had just undergone the [first technically] civil war.) With the government fearfull of the army and the army disliking the government due to cuts and cuts and cuts etc. Also with a catholic king and a protestant nation things were shaky to say the least :D
 
I sincerely doubt the Ottomans would be crushed, and that if they had somehow been crushed that a massive rebellion would not come. The rebellion drawing recruits from all over Sunni Islam would not exactly lack in numbers, and with a good general, they would probably topple the Byzantines. One wonders wether the state that would result would be a new, Nationalist, secular Turkey or a fundimentalist Turkey...
 
Y'know, a revelation has dawned on me. Why do we always talk of the probability of something happening? The probability is usually a moot point. When creating an alternate history scenario, we are the masters of that universe. We can make that outcome, in that timeline, the most probable outcome...
 
Why not? I don't want the Ottoman Empire to die, hence the probability that it will is lower. :mischief:
 
I think, therefore it is in an alternate timeline until das or Xen or someone else comes in and debates it to pieces, altering the alternate history until it's gone from fine Mozzarella to a piece of processed cheese. :p ;)
 
Dont... Use... Cheese... Metaphors... :vomit:

Anyway, would anyone like to see a timeline where the Sassinids manage to press an early collapse on the Byzantines (I dont CARE how historical this is, Xen, I only like it because of my last C3C game...)?
 
its very historical- but its likelly to have coem when the byzantine empire wasnt yet the byzantine empire, but durign the period when east/west were split.... interesting to see what effects this might have on the western empire
 
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