das
Regeneration In Process
Yes, but China could still fall apart due to a political crisis in the higher ranks.
Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!
- Thread starter Amenhotep7
- Start date
das
Regeneration In Process
OOC: Shortish, I know. Basically, this is an era of "quiet" before the storm. Remember, I mentioned an atmosphere like in OTL 1848 as of ATL 1800. 
IC:
1745-1800. Europe.
In the wake of the First Revolutionary War, ideas of radical republicanism and nationalism spread widely through Europe. As explained previously, Russia was comparatively untouched by this, but the extensive western gains started three major rebellion during this era - in 1746, 1763 and 1797; for the same reason, Turkey also was not "infected" by these ideas, but regardless, separatism in such regions as Hungary and Greece, largely on nationalist grounds, was rising. Poland itself was wrecked by rebellions during the time, with frequent foreign intervention turning the Vasa Royal Republic into little more then a Swedish puppet state. Sweden-Germany was suffering as well - Finnish and German nationalism was on the rise in spite of all, especially in southern Finland and northwestern Germany. In fact, the last two decades of the 18th century were witness to bitter fighting between loyalists and well-armed rebels. A radicalist coup d'etat in Stockholm itself was barely crushed in 1762 (the would-be coupers also believed that the whole union was taken over by Germans; as many northern Germans were indeed in the government of UKSG, such an illusion did appear). Denmark slowly deteriorated, collapsing into civil war and general anarchy, to be picked up by Sweden-Germany in 1759. Holland increasingly turned into a real republic by reforms, as stadholder became little more then a ceremonial official. Rome managed, thanks to Paolo I's and August I's policies, to avoid any such problems, sometimes forcefully destroying the cultural gap between northern and southern Italains. Celtic Republic and the English Kingdom were continuously at each other's throats, occasionally starting inconclusive limited wars, and things didn't get better when pro-Celtic moods begun to spread in Wales. In France, opression grew, as numerous republican rebellions were defeated during the era, two of them - in 1775 and 1793 - being very major and nation-wide. This, combined with the growing tide of Walloon, Alsatian and Catalan nationalism prevented France from using the instability in Sweden-Germany in 1770s. Spain was trying to stabilize, but mostly unsuccesfully; the Basque nationalism lingered on, and occasional conservative rebellions eventually, in 1789, resulted in the restoration of absolute monarchy under Carlos IV; the ensuing liberal/radical rebellions were defeated, however.
The thing about this period was that all major states were too weakened by the First Revolutionary War and the later rebellions, not to mention distracted, to attack each other. A notable exception was Rome, which, together with Russia, started a war against the weakening, unstable Ottoman Empire in 1754. Coordinated with a nationwide Hungarian rebellion (led by Bela Petofi), the war was a compelete rout for Turkish troops. They tried to defend their ground, in Crimea and in Greece especially, but their enemies were too strong... and too bold, keeping the initiative in their hands. Paulo I personally led the Army of Illyria, which quickly took Zadar and marched to Zagreb from there, to link up with Petofi. By the middle of 1755, Hungary, with the exception of parts of Transylvania, was free. Corfu was captured without much of a fight, and the Ottoman fleet was annihilated by the Roman Armade at Navarin. Russian forces slowly besieged Akkerman and Kaffa, slowly but surely as the Turkish army was utterly beaten.
Long story cut short, in 1757 the Turks finally surrendered, ceding many lands in the Middle East and Africa (see previous post) and in Europe as well. In Europe, Illyria and Greece, as well as the Ioanian Islands, were annexed by Rome; Hungary, including Transylvania, became an independant kigndom under Petofi dynasty; Russia annexed the Crimean Khanate (um, made the Turks grant it independance and placed the Crimeans under Russian protection until a rebellion "forced" them to annex it directly) and Turkish Yedisan. Also, albeit this was unofficial, this war signified the creation of a new block of powers - Russia, Hungary and Rome were now on very good terms, and that only meant trouble for the established, but now declining, great powers of Sweden (allies: Virginia, Mexico, Celtica (Celtic Republic), Holland, Spain, Poland (the latter being a puppet state, and an unstable one at that)) and France (allies: Carolina, England, Portugal).
Apart from that and a few indecisive minor Celto-English border wars, Europe was at "peace", which basically means that most rulers were too busy fighting their own people to fight each other, or sometimes, like in the case of Sweden and Poland, they were intervenning to ensure "peace and order" in nearby countries.
Meanwhile, the Industrial Revolution was taking place, mostly in Holland, northern Germany and Sweden but beginning to spread into England, Celtica, France and Rome...
IC:
1745-1800. Europe.
In the wake of the First Revolutionary War, ideas of radical republicanism and nationalism spread widely through Europe. As explained previously, Russia was comparatively untouched by this, but the extensive western gains started three major rebellion during this era - in 1746, 1763 and 1797; for the same reason, Turkey also was not "infected" by these ideas, but regardless, separatism in such regions as Hungary and Greece, largely on nationalist grounds, was rising. Poland itself was wrecked by rebellions during the time, with frequent foreign intervention turning the Vasa Royal Republic into little more then a Swedish puppet state. Sweden-Germany was suffering as well - Finnish and German nationalism was on the rise in spite of all, especially in southern Finland and northwestern Germany. In fact, the last two decades of the 18th century were witness to bitter fighting between loyalists and well-armed rebels. A radicalist coup d'etat in Stockholm itself was barely crushed in 1762 (the would-be coupers also believed that the whole union was taken over by Germans; as many northern Germans were indeed in the government of UKSG, such an illusion did appear). Denmark slowly deteriorated, collapsing into civil war and general anarchy, to be picked up by Sweden-Germany in 1759. Holland increasingly turned into a real republic by reforms, as stadholder became little more then a ceremonial official. Rome managed, thanks to Paolo I's and August I's policies, to avoid any such problems, sometimes forcefully destroying the cultural gap between northern and southern Italains. Celtic Republic and the English Kingdom were continuously at each other's throats, occasionally starting inconclusive limited wars, and things didn't get better when pro-Celtic moods begun to spread in Wales. In France, opression grew, as numerous republican rebellions were defeated during the era, two of them - in 1775 and 1793 - being very major and nation-wide. This, combined with the growing tide of Walloon, Alsatian and Catalan nationalism prevented France from using the instability in Sweden-Germany in 1770s. Spain was trying to stabilize, but mostly unsuccesfully; the Basque nationalism lingered on, and occasional conservative rebellions eventually, in 1789, resulted in the restoration of absolute monarchy under Carlos IV; the ensuing liberal/radical rebellions were defeated, however.
The thing about this period was that all major states were too weakened by the First Revolutionary War and the later rebellions, not to mention distracted, to attack each other. A notable exception was Rome, which, together with Russia, started a war against the weakening, unstable Ottoman Empire in 1754. Coordinated with a nationwide Hungarian rebellion (led by Bela Petofi), the war was a compelete rout for Turkish troops. They tried to defend their ground, in Crimea and in Greece especially, but their enemies were too strong... and too bold, keeping the initiative in their hands. Paulo I personally led the Army of Illyria, which quickly took Zadar and marched to Zagreb from there, to link up with Petofi. By the middle of 1755, Hungary, with the exception of parts of Transylvania, was free. Corfu was captured without much of a fight, and the Ottoman fleet was annihilated by the Roman Armade at Navarin. Russian forces slowly besieged Akkerman and Kaffa, slowly but surely as the Turkish army was utterly beaten.
Long story cut short, in 1757 the Turks finally surrendered, ceding many lands in the Middle East and Africa (see previous post) and in Europe as well. In Europe, Illyria and Greece, as well as the Ioanian Islands, were annexed by Rome; Hungary, including Transylvania, became an independant kigndom under Petofi dynasty; Russia annexed the Crimean Khanate (um, made the Turks grant it independance and placed the Crimeans under Russian protection until a rebellion "forced" them to annex it directly) and Turkish Yedisan. Also, albeit this was unofficial, this war signified the creation of a new block of powers - Russia, Hungary and Rome were now on very good terms, and that only meant trouble for the established, but now declining, great powers of Sweden (allies: Virginia, Mexico, Celtica (Celtic Republic), Holland, Spain, Poland (the latter being a puppet state, and an unstable one at that)) and France (allies: Carolina, England, Portugal).
Apart from that and a few indecisive minor Celto-English border wars, Europe was at "peace", which basically means that most rulers were too busy fighting their own people to fight each other, or sometimes, like in the case of Sweden and Poland, they were intervenning to ensure "peace and order" in nearby countries.
Meanwhile, the Industrial Revolution was taking place, mostly in Holland, northern Germany and Sweden but beginning to spread into England, Celtica, France and Rome...
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
Ah, excelent the world is moving on to the early Industrial Age. Steam Trains, and all sort's of other steam powered inventions. 
So now the World is having three major alliances, good good. Russian Alliance, The French Alliance and the Swedish Alliance.
Excelent work das, i knew i could count on you.
BTW, What about China and Japan, are they any different from RL?
So now the World is having three major alliances, good good. Russian Alliance, The French Alliance and the Swedish Alliance.
Excelent work das, i knew i could count on you.
BTW, What about China and Japan, are they any different from RL?
das
Regeneration In Process
Japan isn't much different from OTL, still the civil wars between the mercantilists and the Shogun... Actually, for variety's sake, we could say that the mercantilists won due to Dutch support and begun opening the country to the world - an early Meiji revolution, with an influential mercantilist faction in power.
As for China, I thought I mentioned that there was no Treaty of Nerchinsk, hence there were two major Sino-Russian wars, the first one a Russian victory (Ussuri and Amur regions annexed), but after it numerous reforms were undertaken in China, which also eventually built up a fleet (mostly as a consequence of a limtied naval war with Holland over Taiwan and Philippines). In the second war, China regaiend Amur region, and also the struggle between China and Russia sped up expansion into Central Asia - China took all it eventually gained in OTL plus the Sultanate of Bukkhara, whilst Russia took the rest (Kazakhstan and Khiva, and some Turkmen tribes on the Caspian coast).
Generally, China is, unlike OTL, not lagging behind the European powers.
As for China, I thought I mentioned that there was no Treaty of Nerchinsk, hence there were two major Sino-Russian wars, the first one a Russian victory (Ussuri and Amur regions annexed), but after it numerous reforms were undertaken in China, which also eventually built up a fleet (mostly as a consequence of a limtied naval war with Holland over Taiwan and Philippines). In the second war, China regaiend Amur region, and also the struggle between China and Russia sped up expansion into Central Asia - China took all it eventually gained in OTL plus the Sultanate of Bukkhara, whilst Russia took the rest (Kazakhstan and Khiva, and some Turkmen tribes on the Caspian coast).
Generally, China is, unlike OTL, not lagging behind the European powers.
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
So, no Opium Wars where China get's badly beaten by the British or other European Power? (As in the Opium Wars might come but be different?)
das
Regeneration In Process
I doubt there will be anything like it. As said, they did fight Holland into a draw in the Formosian War... though admittedly it was at least partially because far from all of the Dutch fleet was in the Pacific. Still, China here is indeed unlikely to have to fight any Opium Wars; still, it will have its hands full on the even-more-lenghty-then-in-OTL border with Russia.
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
How modern (or close to European technology) are the Chinese & Japanese Armies and Navies?
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
OOC: Few comments so far... Oh well...
******************
57-150 RR (~542-449 BCE)
Where Rajarajan was a cunning, bold political maneuverer, his son Bhoj had a greater taste simply for that of battle, and most of his reign was spent whetting that.
The conquest of Kura was made early in his reign, perhaps a year in, in the year 59 RR. The armies of the Indus Empire turned south, smashing the forces of a few Guj tribes and taking the area of Avanti, before turning east again and destroying the triblets of Magadha.
But these were small conquests, and he yearned for more, so in two spectacular campaigns, each lasting five years, he crushed the forces of Bengal, Kalinga, then wheeled southwest and utterly crushed the cheifdoms of Kerala. The Indus Empire now encompassed nearly all of the subcontinent, and it was by far the most glorious nation upon this Earth, as one visiting Greek scholar put it.
In any case, the west had changed a bit more than it had been previously stated.
Minoa was still on its feet and kicking, for one thing, the thriving centers at Knossos and also Thira, Rhodes, and Cyprus being the major trading centers of the greatest naval power in the eastern Mediterranean to date. A naval rivalry of sorts flared up between Minoa and Persia, with hundreds of ships built on either side, each fleet staring off the other in occasionally heated skirmishes and confrontations.
Tartessos, too, survived onward, and it soon became a naval power enough to rival the young and rising Carthage... Neither one truly dominated the sea lanes yet, but they were both certainly trying. Meanwhile, another power began to rise, slowly, imperceptibly to the powers that be... But wether it would ever reach the strength of its counterpart from our timeline was an unanswerable question.
Back to the East, well, not quite as far east as one might expect, but anyway...
Cyrus the Great of Persia utterly smashed the Babylonians, the Lydians, and several others in his ride unto the end of the world. He was the greatest conquerer the world had seen... unless you were speaking to a man of the Indus Empire, in which case it was either Rajarajan or Bhoj. Bhoj, however, still had some conquering left to do, even at his advanced age of 40, and so he marched out to conquer this western empire and put an end to the rumors of an army from the west marching to conquer the Indus Empire.
They met near the city of Parsargadae.
When the armies were drawn up fully in size, they essentially matched each other. But this time, it was the indomitable Cyrus against the victor of many battles Bhoj... But Bhoj had only fought against barbarians, to be sure. The forces clashed at dawn and fought until night fall, when suddenly the Indus forces were flanked. Suddenly it was a rout, a red rout as the forces of Indus tried desperately to run home... When Bhoj himself rode into their ranks on a fearsome black stallion.
The speech he supposedly made was rather long-winded, and likely if this version had been said on the battlefield, his troops would have been long gone and he would be speaking to the Persian host. But in any case:
Men! Men of the Indus, men of Mohenjo Daro, of Lothal, of Harappa, of Kura, of Magadha, of Avanti! We stand here on the edge of the world, poised to conquer all that is left of it. We are nearly to the great ocean of the west, a nearly mythical edifice.
We have nothing to fear, nothing to run from, but these few souls who live at the edge of the world! The gods placed us upon its navel for a reason! Those in the center are destined to rule all around them! We are destined, we are chosen, and we have nothing to fear!
Follow me, men! Follow me! Not into the bowels of hell as one might think from your flight, but into the land of riches and plunder! Follow me, and emulate! Follow me unto the ends of the earth, and I will give each of you a palace to live in and a thousand slaves! Follow me, and we shall conquer!
No matter what he truly said, the army of the Indus was turned and fought again, only this time Bhoj brought forth two hundred massive war elephants, beasts that seemed out of a fairy tale to the Persian army. They trampled men under them; their trunks tore the spears out of mens hands and broke them like twigs. Their tusks smashed fully armored men dozens of feet into the air.
And then the hill men of Bactria flanked the Persian army, the ever untrustworthy, but fierce ally of the Indus cities. With this, the Persian army was put to rout itself, and when Cyrus tried to rally them, he staggered back with an arrow in his eye. The Persian Empire was broken.
And this was not necessarily for the better. Persia was the first empire ever to officially declare modern human rights. Cyrus was a humanitarian, one of the greatest conquerors but also one of the most generous of rulers.
Bhoj was nothing of the sort. A fierce warlord who cared little but for his own glory and repute, he could not stop conquering until he died. After the Persian campaign, he returned to try and put Tibet under his rule, which he succeeded, though barely...
But his last twenty years were spent in repeated campaigns to try and hold Persia under his rule, an untenable conquest at best.
******************
Now the West begins to seriously differ from our own timeline.
With the collapse of Persia, a dozen empires tried to take its place. Assyria managed to gain a stranglehold over most of the old Persian lands that hadnt been taken by the Indus Empire, while a newly independent Armenia took over Pontus and other local states. Egypt predictably went independent and managed to secure a hold over Phoenicia.
The most impressive achievement was that of Halicarnassus. Once just another Greek city in Ionia, it managed to come ahead of all others and conquer Lydia wholesale before turning on the other local Greek cities and destroying them one by one. Soon their king had crossed the Dardanelles and taken Thrace, vassalized Macedon, and was preparing to invade the rest of Greece.
Athens had no wooden walls, nor did they ever establish the Delian League, nor were they anything more than a mediocre naval power on the outer rim of the Minoan trading empire. Thebes, Sparta, Corinth were mere names, they didnt represent anything special, spectacular, or amazing.
The colonies in Magna Graecia by the Greeks soon aroused the attention of the Romans, who prepared to march south. Soon a tentative alliance was formed between Rome and Carthage, and they destroyed the Greek cities... And prepared for much more. The Tartessian city state continued to build ships and look in fear of this new state.
******************
India, however, was rocked by the sudden death of Bhoj at nearly 60.
The Persian province was lost almost at once, mainly to a marauding tribe known as the Parthians, but also to the Assyrians, as was Sumir.
The Thar was lost; Southern Kerala was lost... Most of Kalinga was lost, as was Burma and Tibet. The successor to Bhoj, able Prakash, simply did not have enough troops to keep the whole empire at once, though of course the core regions were held, as were some of the outer provinces as well.
The rest of his fifty year reign was spent picking up the pieces of an old empire... but right near the end of it, near the time we would know as 150 BCE, a new threat again stirred in the west, even as one much closer to home manifested itself...
Previous entries
Indus Timeline 1
******************
57-150 RR (~542-449 BCE)
Where Rajarajan was a cunning, bold political maneuverer, his son Bhoj had a greater taste simply for that of battle, and most of his reign was spent whetting that.
The conquest of Kura was made early in his reign, perhaps a year in, in the year 59 RR. The armies of the Indus Empire turned south, smashing the forces of a few Guj tribes and taking the area of Avanti, before turning east again and destroying the triblets of Magadha.
But these were small conquests, and he yearned for more, so in two spectacular campaigns, each lasting five years, he crushed the forces of Bengal, Kalinga, then wheeled southwest and utterly crushed the cheifdoms of Kerala. The Indus Empire now encompassed nearly all of the subcontinent, and it was by far the most glorious nation upon this Earth, as one visiting Greek scholar put it.
In any case, the west had changed a bit more than it had been previously stated.
Minoa was still on its feet and kicking, for one thing, the thriving centers at Knossos and also Thira, Rhodes, and Cyprus being the major trading centers of the greatest naval power in the eastern Mediterranean to date. A naval rivalry of sorts flared up between Minoa and Persia, with hundreds of ships built on either side, each fleet staring off the other in occasionally heated skirmishes and confrontations.
Tartessos, too, survived onward, and it soon became a naval power enough to rival the young and rising Carthage... Neither one truly dominated the sea lanes yet, but they were both certainly trying. Meanwhile, another power began to rise, slowly, imperceptibly to the powers that be... But wether it would ever reach the strength of its counterpart from our timeline was an unanswerable question.
Back to the East, well, not quite as far east as one might expect, but anyway...
Cyrus the Great of Persia utterly smashed the Babylonians, the Lydians, and several others in his ride unto the end of the world. He was the greatest conquerer the world had seen... unless you were speaking to a man of the Indus Empire, in which case it was either Rajarajan or Bhoj. Bhoj, however, still had some conquering left to do, even at his advanced age of 40, and so he marched out to conquer this western empire and put an end to the rumors of an army from the west marching to conquer the Indus Empire.
They met near the city of Parsargadae.
When the armies were drawn up fully in size, they essentially matched each other. But this time, it was the indomitable Cyrus against the victor of many battles Bhoj... But Bhoj had only fought against barbarians, to be sure. The forces clashed at dawn and fought until night fall, when suddenly the Indus forces were flanked. Suddenly it was a rout, a red rout as the forces of Indus tried desperately to run home... When Bhoj himself rode into their ranks on a fearsome black stallion.
The speech he supposedly made was rather long-winded, and likely if this version had been said on the battlefield, his troops would have been long gone and he would be speaking to the Persian host. But in any case:
Men! Men of the Indus, men of Mohenjo Daro, of Lothal, of Harappa, of Kura, of Magadha, of Avanti! We stand here on the edge of the world, poised to conquer all that is left of it. We are nearly to the great ocean of the west, a nearly mythical edifice.
We have nothing to fear, nothing to run from, but these few souls who live at the edge of the world! The gods placed us upon its navel for a reason! Those in the center are destined to rule all around them! We are destined, we are chosen, and we have nothing to fear!
Follow me, men! Follow me! Not into the bowels of hell as one might think from your flight, but into the land of riches and plunder! Follow me, and emulate! Follow me unto the ends of the earth, and I will give each of you a palace to live in and a thousand slaves! Follow me, and we shall conquer!
No matter what he truly said, the army of the Indus was turned and fought again, only this time Bhoj brought forth two hundred massive war elephants, beasts that seemed out of a fairy tale to the Persian army. They trampled men under them; their trunks tore the spears out of mens hands and broke them like twigs. Their tusks smashed fully armored men dozens of feet into the air.
And then the hill men of Bactria flanked the Persian army, the ever untrustworthy, but fierce ally of the Indus cities. With this, the Persian army was put to rout itself, and when Cyrus tried to rally them, he staggered back with an arrow in his eye. The Persian Empire was broken.
And this was not necessarily for the better. Persia was the first empire ever to officially declare modern human rights. Cyrus was a humanitarian, one of the greatest conquerors but also one of the most generous of rulers.
Bhoj was nothing of the sort. A fierce warlord who cared little but for his own glory and repute, he could not stop conquering until he died. After the Persian campaign, he returned to try and put Tibet under his rule, which he succeeded, though barely...
But his last twenty years were spent in repeated campaigns to try and hold Persia under his rule, an untenable conquest at best.
******************
Now the West begins to seriously differ from our own timeline.
With the collapse of Persia, a dozen empires tried to take its place. Assyria managed to gain a stranglehold over most of the old Persian lands that hadnt been taken by the Indus Empire, while a newly independent Armenia took over Pontus and other local states. Egypt predictably went independent and managed to secure a hold over Phoenicia.
The most impressive achievement was that of Halicarnassus. Once just another Greek city in Ionia, it managed to come ahead of all others and conquer Lydia wholesale before turning on the other local Greek cities and destroying them one by one. Soon their king had crossed the Dardanelles and taken Thrace, vassalized Macedon, and was preparing to invade the rest of Greece.
Athens had no wooden walls, nor did they ever establish the Delian League, nor were they anything more than a mediocre naval power on the outer rim of the Minoan trading empire. Thebes, Sparta, Corinth were mere names, they didnt represent anything special, spectacular, or amazing.
The colonies in Magna Graecia by the Greeks soon aroused the attention of the Romans, who prepared to march south. Soon a tentative alliance was formed between Rome and Carthage, and they destroyed the Greek cities... And prepared for much more. The Tartessian city state continued to build ships and look in fear of this new state.
******************
India, however, was rocked by the sudden death of Bhoj at nearly 60.
The Persian province was lost almost at once, mainly to a marauding tribe known as the Parthians, but also to the Assyrians, as was Sumir.
The Thar was lost; Southern Kerala was lost... Most of Kalinga was lost, as was Burma and Tibet. The successor to Bhoj, able Prakash, simply did not have enough troops to keep the whole empire at once, though of course the core regions were held, as were some of the outer provinces as well.
The rest of his fifty year reign was spent picking up the pieces of an old empire... but right near the end of it, near the time we would know as 150 BCE, a new threat again stirred in the west, even as one much closer to home manifested itself...
Previous entries
Indus Timeline 1
das
Regeneration In Process
China is lagging behind by ten or less years, Japan's gap is more like forty or thirty years.
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
I would have expected Japan to surpass China in military tech.
What about North America? Are the colonies there starting to demand more Right's/Autonomy/Independence as Nationalism is kicking in?
das
Regeneration In Process
So far, so good, NK... Map?
EDIT: Also, IMHO Eastern Mediterranean would be greatly changed if you have Minoa survive. The Sea Peoples would have ran in into a lot of trouble with a surviving Minoa, and that probably means a very different Egypt and Phoenicea, at least - both of them much stronger. Not sure about consequences in Greece... I remember some discussion on this (about a surviving Minoa) on some althist forum, there was an interesting idea about Greece never becoming the birthplace of western civilization and so forth, with much less Greek colonies and so forth; however, Italy was prophesized to become the "replacement Greece". I'll try to find that site again one day, but anyway, IMHO your version is just as fine. Keep up the good work!
EDIT: Also, IMHO Eastern Mediterranean would be greatly changed if you have Minoa survive. The Sea Peoples would have ran in into a lot of trouble with a surviving Minoa, and that probably means a very different Egypt and Phoenicea, at least - both of them much stronger. Not sure about consequences in Greece... I remember some discussion on this (about a surviving Minoa) on some althist forum, there was an interesting idea about Greece never becoming the birthplace of western civilization and so forth, with much less Greek colonies and so forth; however, Italy was prophesized to become the "replacement Greece". I'll try to find that site again one day, but anyway, IMHO your version is just as fine. Keep up the good work!
das
Regeneration In Process
China begun to modernize in late 17th century, whislt Japan begun only a few years ago...
Did you even read my post about Americas? The Spanish Empire, outside of Cuba and a few other Carribean islands, is broken up into pieces, Carolina and France are fighting Virginia, Mexico and Holland, the French control lots of lands filled with separatist movements. New England and New Holland are not very separatist, though there are pro-autonomy movements. Dutch Brazil is very problematic, however - not unsimilar to OTL Quebec, but with Portuguese instead of French.
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
I did, just curious to know everything.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Insane_Panda
Deity
Das - I've been reading your timeline. Excellent stuff, can't wait for Reno's NES.
das
Regeneration In Process
Hmm... Btw, isn't it rather more likely that Halicarnassus would be a Minoan colony? That won't really be significant, but still.
Also, about Carthage vs. Tartessos, its rather likely that Rome will ally with whoever seems weaker against the stronger one, and that will give us a huge war. IMHO Carthage is better off; albeit Tartessos is more self-sufficient, doesn't rely on mercenaries as much (from what I understand...) and is minerally-wealthy, Carthage is placed in a better position to prosper from trade and is a stronger maritime power. Ofcourse, if Rome and Tartessos ally, they could defeat Carthage and ruin its trade.
Thank you... am working on the map even as we speak.
das
Regeneration In Process
World Map 1800.
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
Great work, i will need your help with the stat's aswell.
das
Regeneration In Process
HELP only, okay? I don't want to make all of the stats again, like in Silver's... What rules are you planning to use?
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
Aargh, i don't know if i can make the stats myself.
Yours with small changes to make it a bit simpler.
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