Alternates to Judaism - MODCOMP

[sdLeo]

Yeah but it is the Centre of Catholocism

Sorry, if you're just talking about catholicism, then okay i guess... I thought what the others meant was about christianity in general. *sigh of relief*

 

[kairob]

Well then fair play to you I say

 

[fearuin]

I think that if we just assume that all civs without a later religion are pagan and then give +1 culture to all cities when you have the paganism civic. but give a large penalty to civs with a state religion to those without (the pagan ones).

As far as I can see this is the best way to represent paganism, if you want it represented, I have given this a great deal of thought and all the other ideas I could find or think off had large flaws in them.

OK, sounds good to me. And I have an idea for that penalty: how about +1 per each border pagan city? The motto will be "We don't like pagans near our homes". This should encourage the AI to spread their SR through their land (although already does just well).

 

[kairob]

do you meen that if you have a state religion then the cities with that state religion will become unhappy if thier nabouring cities do not have a religion (i.e. are pagan)? If so I agree, if not then I dont quite understand what you are saying, but that could be to do with the alcahol...

 

[fearuin]

I meant exactly what you said, kairob. I didn't explained myself very well, so I will offer an example:
Let's say you are Rome. You have Rome, Mediolanum, Panormus, and Carthage. Christianity is founded on Panormus, and you immediately choose it as SR. Then, Panormus gains +2 , one per each border city; one from Rome, and one from Carthage. Mediolanum it's too far, and Panormus citizens will not concern, until Christianity spreads to Rome. Then Rome earns a +1 , because Mediolanum is pagan, but Panormus loses one : now that Rome is christian, Panormians feel more satisfied.

This is how my idea will work. Understood?

 

[kairob]

hmm, I do like it howevere it is a lot of checks...

Also is it possible to change Judaisms spread rate to 0 so it only stays in jurusalem? if so can someone tell me where to do it?

 

[Edungeon]

Idea: Judaism stay just like now, spreading, etc. But you can't accept it as a State Religion... this doesn't change very much the game mechanics...

( and to compense a +1 or +1 or +1 in the city that have Judaism )

 

[kairob]

hmm, interesting, but seriously where can I find the spread rates in the phython/xml?

 

[Spearcatcher]

Because I do not like the Jewish spread and control of religions in the early game I normally go into the Religious .xml file and drop Judaism down to say 0-5% rather then the normal 100% spread rate. That keeps Judaism mostly limited and behaves more realisitic.

Instead what could be done is have the spread at 0-5% until Jerusulem is first conquered at which point it could raise the spread rate to the normal 100%. Also spawning Jerusulem as a minor civ (instead of independent) called Israeli and only allowing Judaism to be its state religion for the negative diplo modifiers. Preventing any other state from using Judaism as a state religion would help as well.

Spearcatcher

 

[kairob]

If they did that then because of its cultre (close borders spark tention) and the other religion thing everyone will want to invade them, jhust like real life. However I doubt more civs will be added...

 

[Mercenary82]

I think Judaism should stay in with its effects changed, it should not be allowed to be a state religion. It should add a commerce bonus in cities with Judaism, unless you adopt Theocracy, then it should add unhappiness with a chance of Judaism disapearing every turn.

 

[kairob]

Or just remove it, the only way to make it realistic is if it does next to nothing, it is wasting a slot

 

[fearuin]

Yeah, it should be removed. I know there are some people that are against this, but this is about a MODCOMP, so it's totally optional. In fact, everybody should find here a solution that satisfies their pretensions. Having Israeli as a minor civ it's rather easy to do, but you'll have to swap other civ. If you like it, you can do it. I only want a solution for mediterranean/middle east in ancient/classical times.

I've thinking about it, and maybe we can add a solar polytheism, or even zoroastrism or whatever you like, and later on, when "traditionally christian" (spanish, french, german and english) spawn, give'em some Inquisitor units. Muslim civs will also have several. Or we can make the Inquisitor unit a unique unit for the civ that has the Christian and Muslim holy cities. That will help nearly-to-impossible arabian UHV condition of spreading islam to 40% to nearly-to-achievable, instead, BTW.

 

[Mercenary82]

I guess it should be removed if its to hard to change its effects.

 

[McA123]

Taoism could stand to go, too...

I'd prefer to get rid of Taoism in favour of something else instead of Judaism. If you get rid of Judaism, might this not throw the Egyptian UHV a little bit out of skew? If you put in Zoroastrianism, the Arabian and Persian ones will be fine, but otherwise...

 

[kairob]

Look the only way for Juedaism to be accurate is for it to not do anything, so its a waist of a slot. When the mod has finished, and after my exams I plan on swapping Juedaism for Zoroastrianism, and maybe swapping Confucianism or Toaism for something as well. Also if I can I will make the Pagan civic have no state religion, and plus 1 happyness and culture to all cities and minus one hippyness and culture per nonstate religion. This and an Inquisitor that can remove religions. I know this will take a lot of time, but after my exams I will have plenty.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I think I have to agree with the idea about keeping Judaism in but reducing its spread rate to 0%-5%, as it would still have uses, and is just too important to leave out. I wouldn't be opposed to Zoroastrianism, and I like the Orthodox/schism issue. However, I think Protestantism might be a better subsitute, based on the history of Europe (founded by 1517 AD or with printing press). But I'd really like to see both, and I hope Rhye implements schisms soon.

 

[kairob]

It is not too fudgingg important, the only way it is accurate is to limit itsd effects to vertually nothing. It is a waste of a slot. This is agbout modcomps to replace it, you dont wanna replace it? fine, but this is the place for people who do!

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Well, I wouldn't call it a waste simply because historically, no one but Israel has chosen it as a SR. Isn't that what you were talking about, not wanting every civ between Jerusalem and Cardiff to adopt it? Even without SR, it still provides culture, commerce and a science bonus with monasteries, not to mention increased happiness. If I read you correctly, it's not about limiting its effects, just its spread. Anyway, it seems like in most games civs adopt Buddhism, Christianity, and later on Islam, with only a few (if any) taking the rest. I almost never see Taoism as a SR. The point is that they do not all exist solely for this purpose.

There are many people who would disagree over the importance issue, but I won't get into that--Zoroastrianism is very important and influential too, and it is fair to point out that it's not in. That's why I am all for more religions without necessarily replacing any. Even so, as I said I would not be opposed to Zoroastrianism as an alternative.

 

[Edungeon]

There is good Zoroastrianism icons in of the mods that come with Warloards ( I think that the Rise of Rome ).