Alternative Map for DOC

[Bautos42]

- Robinson projection as base
- enlarged/shrunk areas depending on relevance (Europe, Britain, Japan, Korea vs. Sahara, Arabia etc.)
- not larger than x1.5 the edge length of the current map (anything more would exceed performance constraints)

I've actually worked on a map meeting these requirements and implementing the map into DOC. Sadly, I've lately made no progress as I'm quite occupied otherwise, although I plan to resume work on it in one or two months. The map is actually already playable (including spawn areas, barbarians and resource spawns), but as I have not found the time to do the stability maps and CNM, it tends to get weird.
In case you're actually interested in a different map, I'll post some screenshots.

the map itself has 80 x 150 tiles, i.e. about 50% more tiles than the current map. Every area has increased in size to some degree, especially the middle east, china and south east Asia.

In Europe, there is enough space for historically important cities like Prague, Lyon and potentially even Brussels (although I think it would get cramped):

Spoiler :

The middle east is considerably larger, even allowing a viable Assyrian civilization (or at least independant city):

Spoiler :

South east Asia is far larger. India is not really much larger, but it looks more akin to India than the current iteration (No offense, I really like the current India, there just isn't enough space available):

Spoiler :

Borneo is slightly larger, apart from that this region is quite similar:

Spoiler :

There is more space for china and japan. I tried to make the topography of Tibet look more diverse:

Spoiler :

Canada can now feature Toronto, Quebec and Ottawa. There's also more space for California:

Spoiler :

I like the new shape of Mexico:

Spoiler :

Finally, here are South America and Sub-Saharan Africa:

Spoiler :

Generally, some areas could still be improved (I still have to figure out how to make the Caspian Sea look accurate). The map is mostly based on the Robinson projection, but I took some liberties in designing the map, as I resized most areas. It currently also features three additional resources I missed in the main mod (cocoa, potatoes (both historically important) and olives (creating additional variety for the food resources in the Mediterranean area), but these could easily be removed.

 

[Bautos42]

I'll continue discussion regarding the map in this thread:

I don't know how to express how happy it makes me to see this. Your map is basically what I had in mind, but actively dreaded to actually have to construct one day. I'm sure you spent a lot of time on this, and I'm glad I don't have to anymore. I have minor quibbles with the shape of several geographic region, but overall this is exactly what I would have attempted to create (and I don't even know if I would have been so successful). I had a couple of reasons for wanting a larger map and I immediately looked if your map satisfies them, and it does in all cases. This is great, because it also shows that some of the limitations of the RFC map can be overcome with a modest size increase, without going all GEM.

This whole discussion about redoing the map came a bit unexpected (this is still the small civs thread after all), and I had originally intended to keep the cards close to my chest on that topic just to make sure there would be no wrong impressions on how likely it is to be implemented soon. However, finding out how far you already are changes a lot of that. Honestly I don't even know how this affects my mid term plans but "new map" just went from VERY LOW to at least low priority.


I agree, I actually would have added these resources if not for lack of space for them. Another one I'd love to include is Rubber.

I'm very pelased you like the map. I think I started working on this map more than 2 years ago, although I often left it unattended for multiple months and picked it up again afterwardas. Around 4 months ago, I felt happy enough with my results and had the time to start working on integrating the map within DOC, although I had to stop once my vacations had passed. I actually newer posted the map here as I had the impression you had no interest in adding another map to the mod. Therefore, I concluded it would be best to just try implementing it myself. When designing the map, I always hat city palcement in mind: For example I wabted to hace Prague and Lyon in game, so I enlarged Europe just enogh to make these cities feasible. This migth potentially be the reson for some areas looking wierd. Out of curiosity, wich geographic areas bothered you in particular? There are some areas I'm not particularly happy with myself and it would be interesting whether you're refering to the same areas.

 

[Leoreth]

Let me start out with the parts that I really liked, which are India, Indochina and Mexico. I also think that the map avoids awkwardness that is common to maps like GEM that try to overrepresent geographical features that are too small for its scale, but still covers the most important features.

Most of my objections are for Europe actually, which might be because it's where my personal knowledge is strongest. In particular, I think the Italian peninsula is too narrow, and Germany seems to large in the north/south direction. Also Scandinavia seems distorted from what I would expect, but it's possible you are actually more faithful to the Robinson projection there than the DoC map is.

I assume you basically created your own mod for this? I would love to look at this from inside the game, can you upload it somewhere?

 

[star15389]

I would particularly mention Scandinavia, Italy, and Anatolia as places that look really nice in this map. Could Kyushu get a fish or clam somewhere? That city has a strong need for two food resources

 

[Leoreth]

Resources are a good point. Besides adding new resources, did you keep the same number of resources and only spread them out thinner, or did you add additional ones?

 

[borhap88]

I'd shift down by one tile the Island of Corsica; it'd be more natural to see it linked to Sardinia than to Italian Peninsula. Maybe you could also add one more tile to Italy on the Adriatica Sea, for shape reasons as Leoreth said.

By the way, great work

 

[star15389]

Does anyone think it's even worth trying to have Corsica be French and Sardinia Italian? I'm a no, and since that's the case I think just one (Italian) island is basically fine. Might be worth connecting it to the mainland so the AI will actually improve the tile

 

[soul-breathing]

Could you upload this map file here? I like it and I can do some adjust to East Asia part to make it more realistic.

Also I have a suggestion about Europe Part. Is it possible to indicate Swiss in DoC map? In current map this region is all peak plots.

 

[DC123456789]

Something stands out as a bit weird about the US West Coast though - it looks too straight, I think. I think it would look better to have parts of it extend one more tile west?
Also, which lake does the Northern Manitoba one represent? It looks like it could be Reindeer Lake but that's clearly the one to it west, so it's not that, and I don't recall any major lakes there...

And is it just me, or does Sub-Saharan Africa (or more precisely Africa south of the equator) look a bit too small in comparison to the rest of the continent? Or was this done on purpose?

 

[inthesomeday]

Most of my objections are for Europe actually, which might be because it's where my personal knowledge is strongest. In particular, I think the Italian peninsula is too narrow,

I suggest moving the most Southwestern tile of Sicily one north, and moving the tile that connects Sicily to Italy one west, turning Sicily into a triangle-- a square minus the bottom left. Then remove that little extra hill jutting out over by Sardinia; if that's supposed to be Corsica, I'd suggest shifting Sardinia south one as well as Corsica so it isn't directly connected. Then finally add a tile on that sea resource for Venice. The big bay is nice but I think it's a little more practical to have more land there. If the bay is still desired just make it around the proposed Venice tile.

and Germany seems to large in the north/south direction.

I think there needs to be more space in Germany, because I find that often times in my games at least without ahistorical conquest Germany doesn't have enough land to have the proper massive economy. For example I've never seen Munich founded naturally, a very important city in European history.

Also Scandinavia seems distorted from what I would expect, but it's possible you are actually more faithful to the Robinson projection there than the DoC map is.

Finland is a little fat but I like it otherwise

 

[Bautos42]

Could you upload this map file here? I like it and I can do some adjust to East Asia part to make it more realistic.

That would be great. I have little knowledge about east asian landscape and mostly based the map around topographical and climate maps, as well as the current DOC-Map. I'll upload the file later this day in a format vompatible to DOC (i.e. without the additional resources).

Let me start out with the parts that I really liked, which are India, Indochina and Mexico. I also think that the map avoids awkwardness that is common to maps like GEM that try to overrepresent geographical features that are too small for its scale, but still covers the most important features.

Most of my objections are for Europe actually, which might be because it's where my personal knowledge is strongest. In particular, I think the Italian peninsula is too narrow, and Germany seems to large in the north/south direction. Also Scandinavia seems distorted from what I would expect, but it's possible you are actually more faithful to the Robinson projection there than the DoC map is.

I assume you basically created your own mod for this? I would love to look at this from inside the game, can you upload it somewhere?

I certainly will upload the map, although I'm not sure how to upload the rest of my files.
Concerning Europe: This and Japan are actually the regions I spent longest designing. I'll try to explain my choices:
I do not really think Italy is too narrow, cause Italy is just really narrow. Making Italy a tule thiker would probably just make it look weird.
German is actually less expanded in north-south-direction than in east-west-direction. I ecpanded it by 1 tile from north to south, but by 2 tiles from east to west. Additionally, I belive the 1 tile in north-south-direction is absolutely necessary in order to represent Important cities like Prague and Munich.
I acknowledged Scandinavia is distorted, the main problem lies within its northern location. Making it look more akin to actual Scandinavia would greatly expand its size, and I figured that Scandinavia would not be worth expanding the map 1 or 2 tiles to the north. Additionally, any additional space for northern Scandinavia would be useless Tundra anyways.
If you look at the area of different european countries in my map, you'll notice the sizes correspond nicely to their area in real life:
Italy: 25 tiles vs 300 km^2
Germany: 31 tiles vs 360 km^2
France: 46 tiles vs 550 km^2

Resources are a good point. Besides adding new resources, did you keep the same number of resources and only spread them out thinner, or did you add additional ones?

I did add food resorces according to how many cities I envisiomed in each area and how big these are supposed to get. I mostly kept the same types of resources in each area, but often duplicated them (especially in china and indochina)

Does anyone think it's even worth trying to have Corsica be French and Sardinia Italian? I'm a no, and since that's the case I think just one (Italian) island is basically fine. Might be worth connecting it to the mainland so the AI will actually improve the tile

Actually, Corsica is just within the fat cross of Marseilles.

Something stands out as a bit weird about the US West Coast though - it looks too straight, I think. I think it would look better to have parts of it extend one more tile west?
Also, which lake does the Northern Manitoba one represent? It looks like it could be Reindeer Lake but that's clearly the one to it west, so it's not that, and I don't recall any major lakes there...

And is it just me, or does Sub-Saharan Africa (or more precisely Africa south of the equator) look a bit too small in comparison to the rest of the continent? Or was this done on purpose?

How exactly would you change the western coast of north America?
I propise you create a draft of these changes once I have uploaded the map and post a screenshot.
Concerning the lake: It's supposed to be southern Indian lake.
Africa migth be too fat, but that is caused by overdizing Europe and northern Africa. I figured souhtern Africa should not be expanded, as the region is relatively unimpirant to world history and it would just hurt perforamnce.

Edit: I guess Africa could be sligthly expanded southwards.

 

[Leoreth]

I think sub Saharan Africa should rather be reduced in width, I think you can easily remove one tile along the east coast for example.

Also with this we can maybe enlarge some Indonesian islands, or at least Java. It's very populous right now and produces a lot of resources that could be placed there.

 

[merijn_v1]

I really like the map.

I think it is just fine to represent Corsica with the Island tile feature.
Maybe it is a good idea to slightly enlarge Korea, so there is room for a decent Pyongyang and Seoul. Both are possible on the current enlarged map, but I think they have a bit too much overlap.

If you want some modding support, I would be happy to help.

 

[borhap88]

I suggest moving the most Southwestern tile of Sicily one north, and moving the tile that connects Sicily to Italy one west, turning Sicily into a triangle-- a square minus the bottom left.

Thank you for this suggestion. With a wider Mediterranean Sea, it could be enough space for a worthy three-tiles Sicily, surely the most important Island in this sea.

 

[Ecthy]

Nice map, with enough room for an independent and civ-worthy Judea/Israel.

 

[Leoreth]

Other islands that could be enlarged: Sumatra, Ceylon, Taiwan.

 

[merijn_v1]

That would be great. I have little knowledge about east asian landscape and mostly based the map around topographical and climate maps, as well as the current DOC-Map. I'll upload the file later this day in a format vompatible to DOC (i.e. without the additional resources).

Is it possible to create landmark signs on the locations you put the additional resources?

 

[Bautos42]

Here is a version of my map you can open within DOC. I replaced Potatos->Rice, Cocoa->Coffee and Olives->Bananas, as these resources do not appear in the same region anyways. Feel free to experiment and post screenshots of these changes.

 

[Temujin8k]

I'll put my comments here one by one. Anyway, for now, I think Greece can be extended one tile south? And I don't know if it's just me or Anatolia looks shorter (east-west) than it should be?

 

[J422]

I tried my hand at making europe more aesthetically pleasing :

Spoiler :

Also I think more land in northern scandinavia is definitely better.

Spoiler :