Am I Only One Who's Looking Forward... Civil War And Civ Partition In Civ 7?

[gdr_willter]

We'll meet the Crisis system at the end of each Age, and they told that there will be many kind of crisis in the game.

I want to see civil wars - Ideological, Religious, Colonial, and so on. And I also want to see they divide a civ to multiple civs in late game.

 

[sTAPler27]

I'd like to see the potential of poorly managed cities that you conquered or that are just far from the mainland breakoff into independent peoples

 

[gdr_willter]

I'd like to see the potential of poorly managed cities that you conquered or that are just far from the mainland breakoff into independent peoples

It sounds reasonable! I think it could be happen at the end of the Antiquity age - just like how Western Roman Empire fall.

 

[JNR13]

I don't think we will see much of that in the base game, but there's certainly potential. Now even creating new breakaway civs from colonies or so is much easier - they can be the same civ as you while having a big leader pool (everyone not already in the game) to draw from, not just alt leaders for that particular civ (which most civs didn't have).

 

[Takfloyd]

Once more civs are in the game in expansions, I feel like civs splitting up has to make it in. It's the only way to make civs like America or Australia work in a historical sense.

Reminder, Civ IV already had this, and it followed historical pathways. If you played as England, settled an overseas colony and granted it independence, it turned into America.

 

[Hawke9]

Emergent cvs is one of the features I was hoping for most in civ vii, I think it should definitely be possible with modding, the new gameplay systems would fit very well with it.

 

[Aeon221]

Everybody wants Civ splitting, nobody wants their Civ to be split

 

[gdr_willter]

Reminder, Civ IV already had this, and it followed historical pathways. If you played as England, settled an overseas colony and granted it independence, it turned into America.

Personally I was not a big fan of the independence system in Civ 4, It's only covered a too naive and stereotypical way.

I'm already waiting for the 4th Age expansion. There will be more contemporary nations which had been liberated at the end of Imperialism, and they will perfectly fit with this idea.

 

[gdr_willter]

Everybody wants Civ splitting, nobody wants their Civ to be split

I want either, splitting crisis will be a meaningful challenge.

But for ones who really dislike it, it can be handled like a optional Game Mode in Civ 6.

 

[Krajzen]

I was even going to make a similar thread.

It is worth noting that the civ7 design helps to alleviate the old Civ games problem of "who are splinter rebel civs gonna be, they need appropriate leaders" etc. Now you are going to have many redundant civs and leaders that can sort of be combined together when the game needs new player on the map.

Also, civ7 design very naturally provides context for the emergence of entirely new players during the game, something I have always desired to see in those games. I mean, some minor players turning into full fledged era-appropriate civs ar era transitions (though I'd be fine with new civs appearing "out of thin air" ex nihilo - you can always rationalize that as some sort of migration).

 

[Krajzen]

Everybody wants Civ splitting, nobody wants their Civ to be split

The popularity of Paradox games with their constant rebellions and civil wars speaks otherwise... One of the most popular and beloved of them has been crusader kings 2 where your country splitting into mess was part of the core game loop, repeating again and again!
And because it was designed as a fun challenge, players have simply accepted it as a part of the feudal life cycle.

 

[chaosprophet]

The popularity of Paradox games with their constant rebellions and civil wars speaks otherwise... One of the most popular and beloved of them has been crusader kings 2 where your country splitting into mess was part of the core game loop, repeating again and again!
And because it was designed as a fun challenge, players have simply accepted it as a part of the feudal life cycle.

Albeit CK isn't a game with an objective, a goal to win the game, and instead more of a RP game that you set your personal goals, and the mess of things dividing happens everywhere with the AI too.

While civ is a game where your main resource where everything else you get is derived from is the cities, and suddenly losing a portion of them would be a blow that would likely mean that player is doomed compared to the other players. I still think something like that would be very hard to balance and not very likely, and if it happens, probably on transition to modern and if we happen to get a bigger number of modern civs to other age civs, which isn't seems to be the case with the info we got so far.

But if they add such a system, I think it would likely need to be something that equally affects everyone (like an X number of cities of every civ from previous era are lost to a few new civs) or made out of nowhere like you said, or even a mix of the two. Even then would be quite difficult to balance well.

 

[Aeon221]

The popularity of Paradox games with their constant rebellions and civil wars speaks otherwise... One of the most popular and beloved of them has been crusader kings 2 where your country splitting into mess was part of the core game loop, repeating again and again!
And because it was designed as a fun challenge, players have simply accepted it as a part of the feudal life cycle.

Paradox themselves have said most players quit if they lose a big chunk of their country to war or rebellion. Players don’t mind civil wars *if they win*. If they lose they tend to quit.

 

[gdr_willter]

Well I also consider that Civilization franchise is not like Paradox games, but losing portions of the empire is just a main idea of the Crisis system of Civ 7. It can be, it can work.

 

[Aeon221]

If I were going to design country splitting or colony splintering I’d do it as follows:
* you lose any settlements in the new world (the land that opens up during the the ancient-> discovery transition) during the discovery -> modern transition that opens up unless you pay an age point per settlement to keep them
* if you let them split away they form a new country with a leader from the pool and neutral/negative relations with you
* if you want you can pay one age point for good relations and some treaties with them

That way players get a choice of more age bonuses or keeping their cities and if they want they can even spend an age point to have good relations. + there’s no on screen war of revolution, that gets handled with crisis stuff but the player doesn’t have to deal with any split happening out of nowhere during gameplay

 

[gdr_willter]

If I were going to design country splitting or colony splintering I’d do it as follows...

Plus, they would wage the independant war to players on last stage of the Age if they were conquered, lost settlements burned by players, or badly leaved in unhappy state so long. Age transition step can be interpreted as the peace treaty to concede their independence.

 

[anemo]

We'll meet the Crisis system at the end of each Age, and they told that there will be many kind of crisis in the game.

I want to see civil wars - Ideological, Religious, Colonial, and so on. And I also want to see they divide a civ to multiple civs in late game.

Maybe few of the crisis of 2nd age focus on the problems of ruling a big empire sprawling in 2 continents, such as rebellions.

 

[Krikkit1]

Emergent cvs is one of the features I was hoping for most in civ vii, I think it should definitely be possible with modding, the new gameplay systems would fit very well with it.

It could be something with the new IP, perhaps if an IP has 3+ city states it can become a new civ at next age

 

[Krajzen]

Paradox themselves have said most players quit if they lose a big chunk of their country to war or rebellion. Players don’t mind civil wars *if they win*. If they lose they tend to quit.

There is one problem with this argument - this is not against specificially civil wars as a mechanic, since, just like you quote, players in Paradox games reload and savescum for any reason all the time, including lost wars, lost battles, unlucky random events, diplomatic trainwrecks etc. Paradox players like interesting internal strife and challenges - the fact many of them prefer to load-save-retry their way out of any problem instead of going forward with past mistakes is another matter entirely, and the problem of all video games with save/load system

Players like to be challenged, see the popularity of brutal games like Souls-like, XCOM, Darkest Dungeon etc, and the sea of complaints against too easy strategy games. Of course civ is not a game with such "hardcore" vibe, but I wouldn't discard the popularity of additional challenges...

 

[BuchiTaton]

Also, civ7 design very naturally provides context for the emergence of entirely new players during the game, something I have always desired to see in those games. I mean, some minor players turning into full fledged era-appropriate civs ar era transitions (though I'd be fine with new civs appearing "out of thin air" ex nihilo - you can always rationalize that as some sort of migration).

I get the point that civil wars and partitions fit into CIV7's age crisis system, still the way those age crisis happen are far from feel natural. The catastrophist take of CIV7 ages with the syncronized global collapse and the forced identity transition is a shadow of the what could have been done by way more organic means.

Also talking about players mindset when they lose part of their advance. This is other of the contradictory and problematic aspect of the whole AgeCrisis/CivTransition that in gameplay terms is justified as a way to break the "snowball effect". In concept sound nice but in the practice it is really hard to provide a "reset" that balance the challange and the reward. I mean, if this system want to provide a chance for the weak players of the previous era then it would be needed to punish more the strong players, but of course these would make you question why to event play well if you are going to be punished more. Meanwhile the possessions and rewards for players achievements from the previous era could still be the bonuses that end preserving the status quo and so the snowball effect.