Amazingly bad buildings?

[ohioastronomy]

That is false. The UI just doesn't show it explicitly.

I've seen no evidence with things like chopping forests - e.g. if I chop a forest on the last turn, the time to make the next thing seems to be unaltered from the previous item. But I could easily be wrong, haven't tested this rigorously, and will do some testing.

The entire approach seems to be that you get no "change" from carrying things over and that you can't buy partial units/buildings. So it would be consistent with the rest of the design philosophy, just as wonders which someone else builds first get turned into (small) amounts of gold instead of getting to use the hammers for another purpose.

 

[Brawndo]

Yup. 9/10 Wonders are also amazingly useless and act more like slightly buffed buildings. In my game right now, it takes 17 turns for my capital to build a Coliseum (+4 Happy), but 56 turns to build the Notre Dame (+5 Happy, +1 Culture).


My opinion: CiV was barely play-tested, if at all.

 

[the_lor]

I’ll chime in and agree that I like that I no longer have the desire to build every single building in every single city I found. But I do find the cost/benefit for most of them to be pretty poor. I realize it’s an intentional design decision, but decreasing the hammer cost of some of them by even 10 or 20% would be a step in the right direction.

I’d also like a little more of a kick from some wonders. Most of them aren’t worthwhile to build, except Stonehenge which is miraculous in the early game.

 

[bkelly1984]

Did some more testing; overflow is definitely carried over, it's just not shown in any way.

Thumbs up to you, Tarkeel, for listening to others comments, running tests on areas in question and coming back and posting the results. Major kudos.

Brian

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well Stables should give some benefit... ie +gold to Horse resources, after the development of a certain tech. (Industrial Era that would otherwise render stables useless)


Granary/Watermill, is more the issue with the cheapness of other sources of food (Maritime city-states probably need to be adjusted so that the total food they give is independent of # of cities.)


Castle/Military Base might be useful if Military bases gave some benefit (Airlift with Flight?)


Windmill I think is really only there for the Engineer specialist... making it cheaper would be worthwhile though.


University/Public School/Research Lab.... only worthwhile for Large cities or Science Specialists.
I think that's fine

Museum, Opera, Broadcast Tower.... only worthwhile for culture/Artist Specialists... again, that seems fine.

 

[rschissler]

Lets face it, all the buildings and wonders cost too much, and probably too much for maintenance as well. It seems ridiculous that most players will only build a few of the buildings available, which means that a lot of the game is a waste.

I looked at the files in the Civ V folder for buildings and it seems that it would be pretty easy to alter or mod the costs and maintenance. What do you think would be a good figure to reduce costs by, 25%?

 

[Stalker0]

Lets face it, all the buildings and wonders cost too much, and probably too much for maintenance as well. It seems ridiculous that most players will only build a few of the buildings available, which means that a lot of the game is a waste.

I looked at the files in the Civ V folder for buildings and it seems that it would be pretty easy to alter or mod the costs and maintenance. What do you think would be a good figure to reduce costs by, 25%?

I don't feel that a blanket reduction in cost is necessary. I do feel production picks up towards the end of the game (which might be due to railroads), its the main first half of the game that I have the problem.

Perhaps only adjusting those costs.

Or another idea, just grant all city tiles a +1 hammer. A little easier to mod, and has the biggest impact on the first few buildings each city puts out but naturally becomes less important over time.

 

[BjornSwe]

The secret to civ5 is:

1. Do NOT build buildings you dont need. Library, market, perhaps some +XP in mlitary city.

2. Focus on teching the war tree. The other trees are completely useless except for unlocking new military units.

3. Tradepost every tile except special tiles.

So, how can this be solved?

1. Create a new liberalism tech.
2. Give + happiness from some techs
3. Make new techs boost tiles (tradeposts +1 gold, farms already work this way. Something to make non-military tech useful.

But right now its all about getting high gold, and good enough military tech and happiness.

I like it, but I really dislike the non existant diplomacy, and the useless top part of the tech tree. Just tech to machinery as china and gg

 

[rschissler]

The secret to civ5 is:

1. Do NOT build buildings you dont need. Library, market, perhaps some +XP in mlitary city.

2. Focus on teching the war tree. The other trees are completely useless except for unlocking new military units.

3. Tradepost every tile except special tiles.

So, how can this be solved?

1. Create a new liberalism tech.
2. Give + happiness from some techs
3. Make new techs boost tiles (tradeposts +1 gold, farms already work this way. Something to make non-military tech useful.

But right now its all about getting high gold, and good enough military tech and happiness.

I like it, but I really dislike the non existant diplomacy, and the useless top part of the tech tree. Just tech to machinery as china and gg

That's great if all I want to do is win the game! However, I want more! I want to utilize and enjoy all the aspects Civ V has to offer. If most of the game is "useless", then I'm not enjoying it much.

 

[Davor]

So if buildings are useless in CiV, then how is Firaxis going to sell DLC based on buildings then? Then again, who is stupid enough just to buy DLC that is based on buildings only now?

 

[Gath]

The secret to civ5 is:

1. Do NOT build buildings you dont need. Library, market, perhaps some +XP in mlitary city.

2. Focus on teching the war tree. The other trees are completely useless except for unlocking new military units.

3. Tradepost every tile except special tiles.

So, how can this be solved?

1. Create a new liberalism tech.
2. Give + happiness from some techs
3. Make new techs boost tiles (tradeposts +1 gold, farms already work this way. Something to make non-military tech useful.

But right now its all about getting high gold, and good enough military tech and happiness.

I like it, but I really dislike the non existant diplomacy, and the useless top part of the tech tree. Just tech to machinery as china and gg

We know how to win by not building buildings. We're saying its not much fun.

 

[Malecite]

I really didn't enjoy how lame the wonders are in this incarnation of civ. Most of the buildings are absolute rubbish, but the wonders are supposed to be dramatic/powerful incentives. Instead the only ones I ever even considered building were the pyramids, and the 50% longer golden age ones.

 

[mmmfloorpie]

This might have helped me put a finger on what has been bothering me about the game so far. Admittedly, I'm a builderciv-player at heart, but the seeming lack of more worthwhile things to do have been pushing me to just war my neighbors instead--it just always seems like the best (or even only) option. Some of the buildings just don't seem worth it, and if you're not building and not warring, what is going on exactly?

I don't have the experience a lot of other people here have, but are the watermill/granary really that bad? The seem to help me work a mine or so for that production--especially before you even have contact with those "maritime" CSes. Again, I haven't crunched the numbers but just built whatever seems like a good idea at the time. Or am I just stuck in the mindset from previous games that granary are must-builds?

And the question's been asked before, but I'd really like to know--what are you doing with your cities if you aren't making buildings?

I'm also a builder and I agree that this game has nothing to offer besides war.

One of the biggest disappointment(S) is the lack of tile improvements. Basically, you have mine, trading post and farm. Trading post and farms can be built on just about every tile, while mine can only be built on hills. Lumber yard, fort and luxury/strategic improvements don't count because you don't use them that often.

What happened to watermills? What happened to workshops? What happened to windmills?

I hate that these improvements have been incorporated as city buildings (which are completely useless). I used to love having to decide which tile got which improvment! Like "ooo, I need a production boost so I'll build a workshop instead of a cottage on that plains". Or "ooo, I need more food production in my arctic city so I'll build a windmill instead of a mine on those hills". Or "ooo, I need more production, so I'll sacrifice the food production by placing a watermill along my river tiles!"

Why did they have to screw with that? One of the core concepts in Civ is tile improvments. In previous games, it probably accounted for 2/3s of the gameplay!

My goal was always to improve every single tile and have a railroad on every tile. Civ 5 made this completely obsolete. I personally loved road spaghetti...

This is just a common theme nowadays... Game companies thinking gamers just want the "instant gratification" of going to war and killing things. That's why improving tiles and building buildings is so heavily discouraged. They WANT you to build units because they made it cheaper to do so. If you try to play any other way besides just building unit after unit, you are going to lose because of maintanence costs!

Sure it's cool to build the latest unit after researching a tech and unleashing it on your neighbours... But I got news for ya, that's only cool for the first play through. Once you are familar with all the units, it's not as fun as anymore. That's why we need more things to do!!!

They've totally sucked the fun out of Civ by biasing towards war and eliminating the drudgery of actually having to think about tiles and buildings and etc. After all, who wants to think and really get involved in thier Civ? From what I've read here, most people are content to having a superficial involvment in thier civs and just warring with the AI. And it's funny because war wasn't done very well in Civ 5 either!

 

[The_K]

I don't think the problem is in the buildings themselves (or maybe I should say ONLY in the buildings).

I find that, as the game progresses, I get bored with caring for my cities. In all other Civ games I enjoyed managing every single city I had, making sure I have the buildings needed first, than the rest of them to suite the city and help it, no matter how little.
I tried the same thing in Civ V. I mean, the Granary is the building that's been here from the very first Civ. You should build it, right? Every civilization in history had granaries, so I should build them, right? Wrong. OK, maybe the problem is the granary, let's try those other buildings... But no, it's much easier without building buildings. Also, as cities grow and the game progresses it gets an automatic feel ->you're fighting someone, you need to choose production, you just click the city and click something with low maintenance or a unit to disband... I think all this is the result of the game being to automated...I don't really feel like I'm playing, more observing.

 

[Baleur]

And some buildings dont even show their "special" functions, such as that one building that also INCREASES damage of your ranged defenders.
If you only look at the stats and not the specialist slots, description (or even the civilopedia entry), you're not seeing the full value of the building.

 

[wcil]

We need a civil service equivalent for Mining - which make mines much better than just popping a trade post on a hill.

Hill gives 2 production. Golden Age : 3 production.
Mine just makes it 3 production. Golden Age : 4 production.
Trade posting it makes it 2 production, 2 gold. Golden Age : 3 production, 3 gold.

It is a no-brainer to trade-post the hill. Mines need to get stronger with eras and golden ages and provide more production. It shouldn't just exist to merely hook up gems and iron.

 

[MaXimillionZero]

Speaking of golden age effects, they heavily favour cities with mostly plains rather than grassland, since all those +1 hammer tiles get their yields doubled. Especially considering how weak mines are, that makes plains a much more favourable environment for just about any city instead of grassland, which just feels wrong.

 

[vranasm]

I really didn't enjoy how lame the wonders are in this incarnation of civ. Most of the buildings are absolute rubbish, but the wonders are supposed to be dramatic/powerful incentives. Instead the only ones I ever even considered building were the pyramids, and the 50% longer golden age ones.

big ben with the 2nd tier commerce policy are actually very strong for TP spam player... I use it in last 3 games every game. Last instance was on Prince, tomorrow I will try King with TP spam tactic.

 

[The Boz]

What if specialists were improved? Could that fix buildings? Because I think taking down one gold from a few buildings' upkeeps could steamroll into a HUGE pile of CASHY MONEY with just a few cities. Instead, I think the buildings' effects should be improved themselves. So better specialists, better bonuses. Buildings that are too expensive are Theatre and Stadium, as a pretty clear example. +%unit/building production buildings downright suck, but if their main bonus is improved, it could lead to a gamebreaking tactic of drowning the AI the same way the AI drowns you in massive numbers of units. Those should just have an added effect.

 

[Malecite]

Sorry I neglected Ben, yes its actually a decent one, unlike almost 90 percent of them which are situational at best.

I will add my +1 to the idea that in this game you are pretty much at war, going to war, or finishing a war. In all the previous versions of civ i was more of a turtling science/tile perfectionist, there is absolutely NO reward for such behavior in this one.

Even the strategic resources such a wheat that would previously make my eyes dance now are just mundane due to the removal of the healthiness. Its really really sad how much this game axed in order to provide a more "stream lined" (apparently means lame?) version of civ.