America Redesign

[iOnlySignIn]

So there was Financial and Liberty reasons for the Revolution.

Those are one and the same. All wars are fought for economic reasons.

Wicked, the Lion King, The Sound of Music, Chicago etc where all MASSIVE musicals that traveled the world. I would say the Musicals would be better then the Sport resources.

Oh I'm a huge fan of musicals. But I think there are many times more sports fans in the world than musicals fans.

Most people know the Lion King, The Sound of Music, and Chicago as movies (as represented by Hollywood) rather than musicals (as represented by Broadway). Movie is a much more portable form of media than musical - the latter can only be fully experienced live, whereas the former can be digitally projected onto any screen for the same effect, given that the screen is large enough and of high enough definition.

Perhaps Broadway can provide 2 or 3 Hit Musicals resources.

== Broadway ==
- + 50%
- Free Theater and Amphitheater in all cities
- Provides 3 Hit Musicals resources

Also West End > Broadway IMO.

P.S.

Making Broadway part of the American UHV would encourage them to miss out on Wembley (with both requiring Electricity). Which is a good thing, as American football has no way near the foreign influence as European football.

America can be given a slight edge in building Broadway by making the Wonder produce at double speed with... Cotton?

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I think adding more resources to the happiness bonus list of the Mall would help reflect the rampant consumerism and help take care of the happiness problem that America suffers.

I'd recommend corn, cotton and oil.

The Happiness problem is most severe in the early game when Mall is not available.

However, Mall should definitely receive happiness from Oil. Most Americans have this well-known love for automobiles - just seeing, hearing, or smelling one makes them happy.

 

[banestrider]

Those are one and the same. All wars are fought for economic reasons.


Oh I'm a huge fan of musicals. But I think there are many times more sports fans in the world than musicals fans.

Most people know the Lion King, The Sound of Music, and Chicago as movies (as represented by Hollywood) rather than musicals (as represented by Broadway). Movie is a much more portable form of media than musical - the latter can only be fully experienced live, whereas the former can be digitally projected onto any screen for the same effect, given that the screen is large enough and of high enough definition.

Perhaps Broadway can provide 2 or 3 Hit Musicals resources.

== Broadway ==
- + 50%
- Free Theater and Amphitheater in all cities
- Provides 3 Hit Musicals resources

Also West End > Broadway IMO.

P.S.

Making Broadway part of the American UHV would encourage them to miss out on Wembley (with both requiring Electricity). Which is a good thing, as American football has no way near the foreign influence as European football.

Yes they are all well know musical movies, but they all started life as a musical on a stage. I agree with the sport through. When i think of a soccer team it is Man United or something from Europe, I only know of one American sport team and that is the Olympic team.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I meant to reply to this much sooner, but basically, I approve of most of the suggestions but believe many need tweaks.

I'll go in depth a little later.

Sorry, iOnlySignIn.

 

[Red Boxer]

The Happiness problem is most severe in the early game when Mall is not available.

However, Mall should definitely receive happiness from Oil. Most Americans have this well-known love for automobiles - just seeing, hearing, or smelling one makes them happy.

Corn was for our beloved corn syrup and plethora of awful corn based snacks. Cotton for clothes and oil for cars and the many other petroleum based products.

 

[JiimBV]

I'd recommend corn, cotton and oil.

I like the idea. Clothes, popcorn and plastic... the 3 main mall items, good choices. Hahaha

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I like the idea. Clothes, popcorn and plastic... the 3 main mall items, good choices. Hahaha

Actually the vast majority of clothing nowadays are polyester or polyamide which are also plastics, as represented by Oil.

With the new UP though, any Happiness bonus from Mall would be mostly cosmetic as Happiness in late game would no longer be a problem. On the other hand Health in late game is a big problem especially if you want to industrialize heavily and chop all Forests.

 

[Red Boxer]

That was my inspiration behind oil, plastic everything. Corn because soda/corn syrup and junk food. Cotton... wasn't as inspired but clothing was the push behind it.

Something else I'd like to see is a softening of the Rockies to allow a couple more passages through the mountains. One of which needs to go to allow travel to Anchorage. As it stands the AI settles these bizarre cities along the Arctic coast and interior.

Side note: What is up with the +1 food that the supermarket/mall gets? That is by far the weirdest bonus in the game.

 

[civ_king]

That was my inspiration behind oil, plastic everything. Corn because soda/corn syrup and junk food. Cotton... wasn't as inspired but clothing was the push behind it.

Something else I'd like to see is a softening of the Rockies to allow a couple more passages through the mountains. One of which needs to go to allow travel to Anchorage. As it stands the AI settles these bizarre cities along the Arctic coast and interior.

Side note: What is up with the +1 food that the supermarket/mall gets? That is by far the weirdest bonus in the game.

T-shirts and jeans.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I meant to reply to this much sooner, but basically, I approve of most of the suggestions but believe many need tweaks.

I can already guess one: Too much Culture from cities in Unstable areas.

Solution: UP only works in cities on Core, Historical, or Contested tiles.

In fact this is a change that should be made universal. For every civ, Culture in cities outside Core, Historical, or Contested tiles should suffer a -50% penalty (offset by Broadcast Tower; Great Artists are unaffected by this penalty as it only applies to Culture output of the city as a type of Commerce).

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I can already guess one: Too much Culture from cities in Unstable areas.

Solution: UP only works in cities on Core, Historical, or Contested tiles.

In fact this is a change that should be made universal. For every civ, Culture in cities outside Core, Historical, or Contested tiles should suffer a -50% penalty (offset by Broadcast Tower; Great Artists are unaffected by this penalty as it only applies to Culture output of the city as a type of Commerce).

Well, not really.

Culture is real bad when you get too much in excess, but otherwise, you still want to swamp extra tiles for Domination land percentile when you want to go for it.
Hence why I just want to limit extraneous Culture gains and still save some methods (GA culture bombing) for grabbing land when you need it.
Not to mention that sometimes flipping cities can really be nice when the AI has placed them haphazardly (Flipped 4 Viking cities as the Romans once and disbanded every single one of them save one).
Hmmm...I suppose a more articulate way to put it would be this:
Instant Culture lump sums = desirable.
Passive Culture gain over time = undesirable.

Since the latter affects your stability in a negative way over a longer stretch of time
and the former is easily controlled and executed at a whim.

I was actually going to comment on the Mall though.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I don't have many ideas about the Mall.

It never strikes me as particularly distinct from supermarkets in other parts of the world.

 

[banestrider]

I don't have many ideas about the Mall.

It never strikes me as particularly distinct from supermarkets in other parts of the world.

I would agree with this but this is also another example of how the American influence in other countries. I feel that this is not really represented in the game. But I fail to see how to do it.

As a side note some Shopping centers in Aus are 1km long or more. It is an experience to go shopping these days.

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

If civs are going to get stable tiles because they had troops there for a few decades at some point in their history, then all the stability maps are going to look very different, e.g. Britain in the Gulf, China in central Asia, Turkey in central Europe, etc., etc.

I can see the point of The Philippines and Cuba being Contested Areas, but not more than that.

 

[civ_king]

If civs are going to get stable tiles because they had troops there for a few decades at some point in their history, then all the stability maps are going to look very different, e.g. Britain in the Gulf, China in central Asia, Turkey in central Europe, etc., etc.

I can see the point of The Philippines and Cuba being Contested Areas, but not more than that.

Contested is historical area on tiles that someone else has core.

 

[Barbuesque]

Before going into details, I must say that IMO it's impossible to make America overpowered, because it spawns the latest and thus can only affect the rest of the world in ways predetermined by the older powers. In this respect America is the opposite of Rome or China, who must be carefully balanced (like China) or brutally shut down (like Rome). America is a civ that allows practically unlimited creative freedom in its design - it is time to exercise that freedom more fully.

I agree with that to a limited extent. A much more powerful AI America might affect gameplay for civs that have objectives in the same time frame (like Germany, Russia, Japan). I am not sure what the impact will be - it might even be positive, like actually giving Japan and Prussia real competition for their last UHV, but it has to be considered.

Money Slider also counts as Culture Slider.

The old Immigrant UP can be kept as an extra hidden boost (and possibly generalized to South America) or discarded. It was mostly cosmetic, anyway. The new UP does several important things:

(1) It gives America a solution to its Happiness problem, right from the start. The lack of religions or Dynasticism will be less of an unbalanced hindrance. To further enhance this effect, (optionally) give America free Amphitheatres in all cities.

(2) It gives America a more elegant solution to its Culture problem. Late spawning civs require extra Culture boosts - the Thai have their UB, the Ottomans their UP, the Dutch their free buildings in Amsterdam. America needs something. This new UP won't lead to some small Arctic village becoming one of the top cities in the world. Instead, America's great commercial centers such as New York and Los Angeles will become top Cultural cities faster, just like they are IRL.

(3) It synergizes beautifully with Capitalism, since you would keep your Money Slider up in order to hurry things.

It's a very interesting idea for a UP, but some of the "problems" you mention to backup your idea do not exist for the human player;

1) There is no happiness problem for an american human player; Fur, Cotton, Tobacco are within immediate reach, and you can get gold and silver pretty fast. American cities start with forges and markets to double most of the benefits of the above resources, plus you have tons of surplus resources pretty fast that you can trade away. I simply never experienced real happiness issues as America. There can be issues with flipped cities carrying whipping unhappiness from the previous owner, but I believe Leo identified this as a bug.

It definitely seems to be an issue for the AI; but it's an handicap that comes from AI behavior and not grabbing existing opportunities, and poor settling routines. Maybe increase starting units and settlers for the AI version of America.

2) The culture problem: I never experienced a cultural problem as America except when going for the last UHV if short on time, and you'd rather need something like the Ottoman UP to help out if that's what you identified as the culture problem. So I am not sure exactly what is being fixed here.

That said, I really like the concept, but not sure if it's going to actually going to be of any help. I generally run at 100% science for the vast majority of the game as America. The challenge with America, as far as I experienced it, is getting tile improvements up and running.

== Unique Building: Mall ==

The current Mall is already very well-designed, so I will only make one small but important tweak:

Instead of +20% , it should give +15% and +15% .

The difference here is that comes from Cottages and Trade Routes only, whereas comes from those, but also Specialists and Corporations. I feel the bonus will make it more appealing for America to stay with Capitalism and Free Market, instead of a pure Specialist economy. I have not tested these percentage numbers so they may still need to be tweaked, but I think 15% of either would be noticeable but far from overpowered.

I agree with your point of view on the mall and I really like the tweak you're suggesting. America usually runs a really high science slider anyway so they don't really need the + money %. However, +commerce % is a very powerful modifier and maybe 10% would be more balanced.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

1) There is no happiness problem for an american human player; Fur, Cotton, Tobacco are within immediate reach, and you can get gold and silver pretty fast. American cities start with forges and markets to double most of the benefits of the above resources, plus you have tons of surplus resources pretty fast that you can trade away.

Who do you trade with? For the early game (before you get SoL) you are at war with the entire world. Except in the rare case where you don't flip any cities - but that should not, and almost never happens. After early game wars, I agree Happiness is less of a problem if you're careful. It's before that I'm concerned with.

Nevertheless, AI England can often settle Vancouver before you reach it, giving you even more problems with Happiness resources over a longer time period.

It definitely seems to be an issue for the AI; but it's an handicap that comes from AI behavior and not grabbing existing opportunities, and poor settling routines.

As a rule the game is balanced for AI vs. AI because the vast majority of players are AIs.

2) The culture problem: I never experienced a cultural problem as America except when going for the last UHV if short on time, and you'd rather need something like the Ottoman UP to help out if that's what you identified as the culture problem. So I am not sure exactly what is being fixed here.

That is because Leoreth already implemented what is effectively the Ottoman UP (but in a more ridiculously overpowered form) for America.

That is how when America conquers a small arctic village in Quebec, that small village will suddenly have thousands of Culture and become one of the Top Cities of the world.

I prefer a more... realistic approach than that.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

A much more powerful AI America might affect gameplay for civs that have objectives in the same time frame (like Germany, Russia, Japan). I am not sure what the impact will be - it might even be positive, like actually giving Japan and Prussia real competition for their last UHV, but it has to be considered.

As a rule late spawning civs are pathetic due to the snowball effect of Wonder building, infrastructure building, resource scrambling, and power structuring (meaning the establishment of Vassal systems, resource trade agreements, and Defensive Pacts) of older civs.

Ottomans have their amazing UP to counterbalance this effect. It gives them Culture, and by extension Happiness, Resources, and tactical superiority. Their UU + Topkapi Palace offsets the disadvantage of their military isolation.

Prussia, and particularly America, need more. Especially in terms of Culture boosts. Prussia has less of a problem because

(1) They can collapse their enemies much more easily by taking their Core, and thus removing foreign Culture (and resulting Unhappiness) completely.

(2) They can take over many useful Wonders.

Prussia and Turkey also both don't need to build Settlers, and therefore can build more military units to stack Happiness with Dynasticism.

America doesn't have these options.

I agree with your point of view on the mall and I really like the tweak you're suggesting. America usually runs a really high science slider anyway so they don't really need the + money %. However, +commerce % is a very powerful modifier and maybe 10% would be more balanced.

Yeah perhaps we should try +15% +10% to see what happens first.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Contested is historical area on tiles that someone else has core.

I think the original statement is in reference to the suggestion that America receive Australia as a stable region though, something I myself, am firmly against.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I think the original statement is in reference to the suggestion that America receive Australia as a stable region though, something I myself, am firmly against.

It makes no difference either way. You should not settle Australia unless your UHV requires it, or you absolutely run out of places to settle for Domination (which almost never happens).

IIRC France has Historical areas in Australia.