American Civil War II Scenario Development Thread

One important change for ACW2: Native American Tribes will be something to reckon with. I plan on quadrupling the # of tribal huts on the map, and giving Native American units the Invisible flag to represent their ability to strike unseen, and their knowledge of the terrain. The far west will no longer be a side-show, as the destruction of outposts there could lead to an assault by Native Americans further east.
 
Naval units are finished now for the ACW2 units table. I've added a new Transport unit (Improved Transport), and a Union Mortar Boat (with Lethal Land Bombard).

Improved Transport will be available with Naval Tactics. This transport will be able to travel in Ocean squares, and carry 3 units (regular Transport will be 2 and sink in Ocean, advanced Transport will be 4).

Union Mortar Boat will be available with Advanced Naval Tactics, which will be moved to the 1864 era Tech Tree, and will be the prereq. for Advanced Ironclads (which is being moved forward).

Improved Naval Tactics (was Advanced Naval Tactics) will now be the prereq. for Advanced Transport (which is being moved into the 1863 tech tree).

The Confederate Cruiser will be moving to Advanced Naval Tactics. The Confederate Ram will still need Improved Naval Tactics, as will the Union Ironclad Gunboat. This will mean each side gets a new unique ship with the Improved and Advanced Naval Tactics.


I think this shifting around of the Naval techs makes more historical sense, and should add more variety to the naval scene.

As promised, naval movement has been scaled upward significantly.
 
Ack, forgot to upload the new file, here it is.

Please keep in mind these numbers are open to discussion, and can change at any time.

Native American units also have been placed on the table. They are slightly weaker than before, but have ATR and Invisible/Detect Invisible. The Native American Horseman also has Blitz.


Edit: Cavalry units now have 4 movement, costs have been updated to reflect this change.
 
Originally posted by Procifica
One important change for ACW2: Native American Tribes will be something to reckon with. I plan on quadrupling the # of tribal huts on the map, and giving Native American units the Invisible flag to represent their ability to strike unseen, and their knowledge of the terrain. The far west will no longer be a side-show, as the destruction of outposts there could lead to an assault by Native Americans further east.



I don't believe the natives will destroy outposts. Because they are "barbarian" units, they will raid and pillage, but never destroy. While the invisible ability might let them move further east, they won't succeed in still being anything but an annoyance.

As a player I would likely abandon my forts (those nowhere near the enemy), move the units further east to defend cities, and let the natives raid the forts till the end of the game. Its the AI that goes after the native settlements, not the player. You will succeed in drawing off AI units to attack the natives in greaters numbers, which is not what I think you intended.

Misfit
 
Naval units:

Traditionally the naval side of ACW was a non-starter. The AI doesn't build naval units, so there is little incentive for the human player to spend much on this side of the game as well. In 20+ games of ACW I never built anything bigger than an ironclad (and then only because I wanted to try it out). There is no threat from the AI. The extra units are nice, but I doubt they will get built.

It might be different in PBEM games, since in the two I have played there is considerably more dynamic action going on. (In my current game as the CSA, I've bombarded New York and Boston, one step ahead of the Union naval sloops chasing me. I can tell from spying that my opponent has built additional naval units to hunt me down).

The Union mortar boat would appear to be only useful on inland rivers / lakes. Have we overcome the problem of being able to build naval units on coastal only rivers?

Are you planning on increasing naval movement costs in Coastal squares? Given the moment points allocated, a moderately equipped ship could run in, bombard, and run away before ever coming under the guns of the harbour. This could be a problem for the CSA in defending its terrain enhancements around the bigger cities.

Transports might be open to abuse early in the game. If you allow two units per transport, then the Union could transport two divisions of troops per transport. Its not the kind of thing the AI would do, but a human player would. (Imagine four divisions of Union troops from Louisville, landing next to Clarksville. That would cook the AI and would be totally unrealistic). The AI has a tendency to never put more than 1 unit on a transport anyway, so why not reduce the first transport to capacity 1, the improved transport to capacity 2 and the advanced to capacity 3? It might provide better balance. A human player can still invade, since the transports now move faster, he would just have to work a little harder at it (and build more transports). You might also need two classes of transports; river and ocean. River transports might have lower movement points (assuming you don't increase the movement cost of coastal squares).

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a class of river transport with a max. transport capacity of 1.

I like the improved horse artillery. Its good enough that I would build them and use their superior movement to keep up with my divisions. (What tech would they show up in?)

The new cost allocations look good. I can try them out in ACW C3C to see what the AI thinks is a good buy.

Regards,
Misfit
 
"One important change for ACW2: Native American Tribes will be something to reckon with. I plan on quadrupling the # of tribal huts on the map, and giving Native American units the Invisible flag to represent their ability to strike unseen, and their knowledge of the terrain. The far west will no longer be a side-show, as the destruction of outposts there could lead to an assault by Native Americans further east." Procifica

I think I have the record in number of playtests, with regard
to the "old" ACW, and I see a problem with the above
described:

It takes 30+ turns to reinforce the Far West.
The only "correct" answer to the new rules will be
to temporarily give up the Far West. Should that
later mean problems further east, it will be easy
to counter them.

I think The Far West as it stands now is OK and historical.
The new Far West rules seems to me to speculative
and will probably produce unhistorical results.

Best Regards

Rocoteh
 
Hmmmm, seems increasing the Native Americans substantially is not a good idea after all. I'll just increase the # of tribes then to be relative to the new size of the map, instead of quadrupling. The last thing I want is for the AI alone to deal with the problem.

The new invisible/detect invisible will make them better foes though.


Misfit: If not the need for Corps, I would have been able to make a "brigade-only" transport. That was the original intention for the 2 capacity transport. I forgot to adjust the values when I realized I couldn't make it "brigade-only" without abandoning Corps. I'll adjust the transports to 1/2/3, and add Sink in Sea to the regular transport, and Sink in Ocean to the Improved one.


Mortar boats are intended mostly for coastal combat. Their most prominent use was during the battle of Mobile Bay (I think).


I'm considering slowing down movement in coastal squares. The coast will not be as expansive as in ACW (sea squares will be closer to land).

Not sure what tech Improved Horse Artilery will go under, I might create a new one for it.


In ACW2, I'm hoping to entice the AI to actually build naval units. I plan on having Havana, Cuba for the Spanish, a couple cities in the Bahamas and some in Canada for the British, and some cities in Mexico for the Mexicans. I'm really hoping the AI is not stupid enough to try to attack the "invincible cities" I will give the dummy civ's. Those civ's will only have immobile units.
 
Fixed the transports. I also did a little adjusting to the Native Americans. I gave them each 1 additional attack, while lowering defense by 2. This will make them powerful in raiding, but easy to kill if gotten ahold of.
 
Work begins anew on the map. I'm hoping to complete city placement and rivers east of the Mississippi today. I'm also hoping to have the Great Lakes done by tomorrow.



ACW2 also will feature new artwork for units, based on what Misfit_Travel is using for ACW C3C V4.0. This will improve the appearance of the scenario, and make it easier to tell units apart. Multi-figure units will be in for Divisions.

I'm also planning on using a terrain modpack, to improve the look of terrain.


I'm hoping some of these changes will appeal to those who so far have had little or no interest in the scenario. I realize a majority of users of this board are from europe, but the American Civil War was one of the most important conflicts in history. It directly affected how the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-1871 was fought by Bismarck (as well as the Austro-Prussian War of 1866), and later World War I.

The realism in this scenario will be unmatched by pretty much any other scenario so far created for Civ3.


Well, on to work.
 
Question: What if the Native Americans were made into an actual Civ or Civ's?
 
Interesting thought, but how would you keep them from being manipulated by the human player?

Hmm, (thinking out loud)

If you gave them a handful of settlements, didn't give them workers, and restrict them (via very expensive troops) to only a few units it might work. At least this way they could be bribed to go after nation "x". Its not unrealistic to assume that one side or the other might use them as pawns to create a little trouble.

The problem might be if they actually managed to capture a city. (Forts would still be destroyed since they have zero culture). You might have to up the garrisons in the border cities to prevent all but the most determined attack by Indian units.

It might be an interesting experiment.

Misfit
 
More thoughts on natives as a nation.

That might actually work because you could also then enable MOBILIZATION in the tech tree. To get out of mobilization, you need to make peace with someone. Since CSA / Union are locked alliance, the player could make peace with the Indian and then change back to normal production.

Misfit
 
Yeah, Natives as a nation does create some problems, but its a thought.
 
Terrain Movement values:

Grassland/Plains: 1
Desert/Forest/Flood Plains/Urban/Plantation: 2
Hills/Swamp: 3
Mountains: 4

Ocean: 1
Sea: 2
Coast: 3


Terrain Defense Values:

Plains/Grassland: 0%
Urban/Plantation/Desert/Flood Plain: 5%
Forest: 15%
Swamp: 20%
Hills: 30%
Mountains: 50%

River: 20%
Fortification: 20%
Town: 5%
City: 15%
Metropolis: 25%
Fortress: 40%
 
The St. Louis region looks to be so far the most significant improvement over ACW. The Missouri and Mississippi Rivers are actually separate rivers in the St. Louis vicinity, and northern St. Louis no longer sits on the Mississippi (its on the Missouri like it belongs).

I'll post a screenshot once I get more of the area done.
 
NATIVES AS CIV
I wondered if it was, perhaps, very appropriate to make the native indians a civ - and thereby able to be communicated with - alliance, and conflict between the natives and new americans was a common theme of the era...

If not-

NATIVE UNITS
Hidden nationality?
This would make the AI take them more seriously...
 
Main problem is getting Human players to take them seriously.
 
i would say Civ, and maybe only several cloaked units.

cant build settlers so no xpansion and maybe their defensive uu would have no movement.........or not

either way its your Scen.
 
Well I'm still not sure which way will be better.

If I make them Civ's, would I be able to keep them at war with USA/CSA?
 
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