Mr. Dictator
A Chain-Smoking Fox
hmmm.....you could post savs?
but that would be grueling and wouldnt keep[b/] them at war.
but that would be grueling and wouldnt keep[b/] them at war.
American Civil War II Scenario Development Thread
- Thread starter Procifica
- Start date
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
Well for them to work as a Civ or multiple Civ's, I need for them to stay at war with both USA and CSA. Otherwise, I'll have to leave them as Barbarian Huts.
Mr. Dictator
A Chain-Smoking Fox
you could do it in the C3C version, but not PTW or Vanilla
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
Well I plan on ACW2 being a C3C only scenario, that seems to be what everyone wants. If there is interest in a Civ3/PTW version, then I will do one.
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
Gatling Gun unit is now on the units table, along with a Gatling Gun Division. The Gatling Gun Division costs 3 pop points to balance out the fact that its cost even with only 4 HP, should be well over 1000 (1190 to be exact).
I've also added Improved Garrison, to give both sides a way to counter Guerilla Warfare (this is where the unit will be available).
I've also added Improved Garrison, to give both sides a way to counter Guerilla Warfare (this is where the unit will be available).
Misfit_travel
Emperor
Procifica:
The feature which would keep one side in a permanent war with another is called Locked Alliances. It is a C3C feature only, but would work. We already use it in V3.9x to maintain war between the CSA and USA.
Misfit
The feature which would keep one side in a permanent war with another is called Locked Alliances. It is a C3C feature only, but would work. We already use it in V3.9x to maintain war between the CSA and USA.
Misfit
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
Any comments on my new Gatling Gun units?
I'll have to experiment with making the Native Americans an actual Civ then, when I obtain Conquests. Their units would be reduced in strength from the ones currently available.
I'll have to experiment with making the Native Americans an actual Civ then, when I obtain Conquests. Their units would be reduced in strength from the ones currently available.
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
I believe somewhere there was a discussion about new governments. Well, I'm thinking that Suspension of Habeas Corpus should allow 2 new governments, 1 for each side. These governments would increase the military police limit by 1, increase the draft rate by 1, and increase corruption by 1 level. A stronger "military" government, but more prone to corruption due to unhappiness with the suspension of habeas corpus.
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
Mississippi River is completed, now I'm working on Lake Michigan (Wisconsin coast completed now past Green Bay).
Mr. Dictator
A Chain-Smoking Fox
what unit are yo using for the gatling gun?
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
Eh, not sure on the graphics yet. Open to suggestions.
whizkid1950
Chieftain
I hope this post isn't viewed as too negative; I certainly don't intend it that way. But I have reservations about both of these ideas, primarily because they seem contrary to what I thought the ACW design team was highly committed to: historical realism, as much as that's possible in the Civ gaming system (I know ACW2 is Procifica's endeavor, but the ACW designers are all weighing in on these proposals, so I address this to "the team.") Perhaps I'm off base with these comments, if ACW2 is headed toward becoming a"what if?" scenario.
The Gatling gun was an experimental weapon in the mid-1860's and was not even a minor factor in the Civil War. The U.S. Army didn't even buy any; General Benjamin Butler independently bought 12 of the mostly-unreliable first-generation Gatlings and used them for their shock effect in 1864. Those 12 guns were the only ones ever to see action in the war. The improved Gatling Gun was demo'd to the army again in 1865 and was adopted, but didn't appear in the U.S. Army ordinance until 1866. I would propose to Procifica that adding the unit should only be done as an acknowledged "what if" effort. On that basis I wouldn't be put off by the presence of the unit in the game, much as if it were the ME262 playing a prominent role in a wwII simulation stretching a year or two longer than the real war did.
As a civil war historian I'm admittingly lacking in many aspects, but as a long-time student of Indian affairs I have to tell you it would be pretty jarring to see Indians as a civ in ACW2. American Indians in the 1860's were many civilizations, never acting in concert for or against the North or South. Sitting Bull only united the plains indians briefly a decade later long enough to wipe out 12 companies of cavalry. Indians were "used" in the civil war by both sides in various capacities, primarily as scouts, foragers, or as small fighting units of dubious effectiveness that occasionally harassed the enemy. The existance of natives in ACW/ACW2 is fitting on that negligible level, in order to realistically portray the need to keep a small garrison in those western forts. But to allow either side to ally with them would indeed be a job better left for Harry Harrison. The western American Indian remembers the civil war as a brief, happy period when they were left largely alone before their extermination continued following the war. Had they existed as a unified, autonomous civilization they would have told the USA or Confederacy to take a hike before the first shot of the war was fired.
Just my perspective... thanks for the opportunity to chip in.
The Gatling gun was an experimental weapon in the mid-1860's and was not even a minor factor in the Civil War. The U.S. Army didn't even buy any; General Benjamin Butler independently bought 12 of the mostly-unreliable first-generation Gatlings and used them for their shock effect in 1864. Those 12 guns were the only ones ever to see action in the war. The improved Gatling Gun was demo'd to the army again in 1865 and was adopted, but didn't appear in the U.S. Army ordinance until 1866. I would propose to Procifica that adding the unit should only be done as an acknowledged "what if" effort. On that basis I wouldn't be put off by the presence of the unit in the game, much as if it were the ME262 playing a prominent role in a wwII simulation stretching a year or two longer than the real war did.
As a civil war historian I'm admittingly lacking in many aspects, but as a long-time student of Indian affairs I have to tell you it would be pretty jarring to see Indians as a civ in ACW2. American Indians in the 1860's were many civilizations, never acting in concert for or against the North or South. Sitting Bull only united the plains indians briefly a decade later long enough to wipe out 12 companies of cavalry. Indians were "used" in the civil war by both sides in various capacities, primarily as scouts, foragers, or as small fighting units of dubious effectiveness that occasionally harassed the enemy. The existance of natives in ACW/ACW2 is fitting on that negligible level, in order to realistically portray the need to keep a small garrison in those western forts. But to allow either side to ally with them would indeed be a job better left for Harry Harrison. The western American Indian remembers the civil war as a brief, happy period when they were left largely alone before their extermination continued following the war. Had they existed as a unified, autonomous civilization they would have told the USA or Confederacy to take a hike before the first shot of the war was fired.
Just my perspective... thanks for the opportunity to chip in.
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
Well, if I did put them in as a Civ, it would be multiple Civ's, one for each tribe. Each would be permanently at war with USA and CSA. Though I think the barbarian huts probably is the best way to go.
With regard to the Gatling Gun. It is possible that the Civil War could have lasted beyond 1865 (though I would think not much beyond 1866), if the CSA could have better exploited some of its initial advantages, and if Gettysburg was never fought. Vicksburg also could have been avoided (an even worse disaster for CSA arms, as they lost over 30,000 men paroled alone). I think as a "what-if" tech, it should be in. Though, the caveat is, this will be the last possible tech researchable pretty much (its requirements on my tech tree are pretty hefty, only the 2 naval techs are not a direct/indirect requirement), and it will take ALOT of turns to research (the idea here is to make sure its not available unless the war lasts until 1866 or later).
ACW2 will be 300 turns, which would put the final turn at Week 14, 1867 (approximately the beginning of April, almost 2 years after the real ending of the American Civil War).
With regard to the Gatling Gun. It is possible that the Civil War could have lasted beyond 1865 (though I would think not much beyond 1866), if the CSA could have better exploited some of its initial advantages, and if Gettysburg was never fought. Vicksburg also could have been avoided (an even worse disaster for CSA arms, as they lost over 30,000 men paroled alone). I think as a "what-if" tech, it should be in. Though, the caveat is, this will be the last possible tech researchable pretty much (its requirements on my tech tree are pretty hefty, only the 2 naval techs are not a direct/indirect requirement), and it will take ALOT of turns to research (the idea here is to make sure its not available unless the war lasts until 1866 or later).
ACW2 will be 300 turns, which would put the final turn at Week 14, 1867 (approximately the beginning of April, almost 2 years after the real ending of the American Civil War).
whizkid1950
Chieftain
I like that explanation of the gatling gun; I'd have no qualms with it appearing late in the war. It's logical that it would have. The indians as civs still seems weird.
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
Well based on feedback, and the need to keep historical accuracy, the Native Americans will stay as barbarian huts to keep their influence minor but annoying.
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
ACW2 will officially become a C3C scenario the day after Christmas.
After giving the unit stat table a quick glance, I only have one comment. Why is it that we go from 21 def. with the Enfield Riflemen to a whopping 25! def. with the Spencer? I think that's a tad high. Maybe 23, but not 25.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Don't have the time to look at the new unit tables in any much depth ATM, but I cannot fail to notice that many arty units - the 'field' ones, it would appear - now have DF=0. This means, of course, that those available to both sides are now capturable, and those restricted to one side will be all destroyed on contact with the enemy, no matter how big the stack.
I'd be interested to hear the reasoning behind this; both why the change, and why only for field artillery.
I would offhand expect that the gameplay effects would be small, and not too bad; it forces the human player (who's going to be the one marching around with big arty stacks, barring improved AI on the arty front) to protect his cannons better. But I'm not entirely sure we want a single Union Militia (small) unit to be able to wipe out an unlimited number of Conf Artillery units without taking any damage at all. The current model, in which you basically need one attack with a decent fighting unit per arty piece seems to me more realistic.
I'd be interested to hear the reasoning behind this; both why the change, and why only for field artillery.
I would offhand expect that the gameplay effects would be small, and not too bad; it forces the human player (who's going to be the one marching around with big arty stacks, barring improved AI on the arty front) to protect his cannons better. But I'm not entirely sure we want a single Union Militia (small) unit to be able to wipe out an unlimited number of Conf Artillery units without taking any damage at all. The current model, in which you basically need one attack with a decent fighting unit per arty piece seems to me more realistic.
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
Artillery essentially is defenseless, and giving them defense of 0 is more realistic. Howitzers will be changed to 0 defense as well, I did some reading on these units and there's no reason their defense should be higher than a regular artillery unit.
Artillery should be protected, it was VERY VERY rare that artillery was left unsupported by Infantry (or Cavalry in rare cases).
I don't see any reason currently to provide Artillery (except Fortress Guns) with defense.
Noldodan, the Spencer Rifle was a significant upgrade in defensive fire, it made Cavalry pretty much useless and frontal assaults even more brutal. It could fire almost twice as many rounds per minute as a Enfield/Springfield, and at a further range accurately. The 4 increase is actually a moderate one. I originally had it at 26. The balance here, is its offensive power is only 1 higher than the Springfield.
I've done some exploring of the C&C editor and the scenarios, and let me just say I have even more planned than before. I may have a way now to somewhat actually represent a Union Blockcade/Confederate anti-Blockcade. I'll post more information as I tinker with the editor to see if what I want to do is possible. If it is possible, then naval units will be significantly more important to both sides.
Artillery should be protected, it was VERY VERY rare that artillery was left unsupported by Infantry (or Cavalry in rare cases).
I don't see any reason currently to provide Artillery (except Fortress Guns) with defense.
Noldodan, the Spencer Rifle was a significant upgrade in defensive fire, it made Cavalry pretty much useless and frontal assaults even more brutal. It could fire almost twice as many rounds per minute as a Enfield/Springfield, and at a further range accurately. The 4 increase is actually a moderate one. I originally had it at 26. The balance here, is its offensive power is only 1 higher than the Springfield.
I've done some exploring of the C&C editor and the scenarios, and let me just say I have even more planned than before. I may have a way now to somewhat actually represent a Union Blockcade/Confederate anti-Blockcade. I'll post more information as I tinker with the editor to see if what I want to do is possible. If it is possible, then naval units will be significantly more important to both sides.
Procifica
ACW Scenario Creator
Some important changes for C3C version:
Field Artillery will have the "stealth attack" ability, as will the Confederate Irregular/Guerilla units. Coastal Guns and Fortress Guns also will be granted this ability. Howitzers will not due to the nature of their firing (higher trajectory).
A new unit for the Union, Freed Slave will be in. When captured, this unit will be converted to a Slave. When a slave is captured, it will be converted to a Freed Slave. These units will vary slightly in abilities.
Howitzers will be given the collateral damage ability.
Frigates, and Union/Confederate Advanced Ironclads will be given the collateral damage ability. Union Mortar Boats also will be granted this ability.
All Transports will require an Escort.
Confederate Cruisers, and Union/Confederate Sloops will be given the "stealth attack" ability.
Advanced Fortifications will grant a building which will make a city immune to "stealth attacks".
I plan on using all 7 "flavors" in the scenario. These will be Infantry Units, Naval Units, Artillery Units, Cavalry Units, Industrial, Scientific, and Structural. The Union will be flagged Industrial, while the Confederacy will be flagged Infantry Units. Each will have a varying relationship with the other types. This will basically "steer" the AI toward specific tech choices (Union more toward Industrial, Naval, Infantry, and Artillery in that order, Confederacy more toward Cavalry, Infantry, Structural, and Artillery in that order, both will be roughly average for Scientific)
There will be more additions and changes, but this is a good starting list.
Field Artillery will have the "stealth attack" ability, as will the Confederate Irregular/Guerilla units. Coastal Guns and Fortress Guns also will be granted this ability. Howitzers will not due to the nature of their firing (higher trajectory).
A new unit for the Union, Freed Slave will be in. When captured, this unit will be converted to a Slave. When a slave is captured, it will be converted to a Freed Slave. These units will vary slightly in abilities.
Howitzers will be given the collateral damage ability.
Frigates, and Union/Confederate Advanced Ironclads will be given the collateral damage ability. Union Mortar Boats also will be granted this ability.
All Transports will require an Escort.
Confederate Cruisers, and Union/Confederate Sloops will be given the "stealth attack" ability.
Advanced Fortifications will grant a building which will make a city immune to "stealth attacks".
I plan on using all 7 "flavors" in the scenario. These will be Infantry Units, Naval Units, Artillery Units, Cavalry Units, Industrial, Scientific, and Structural. The Union will be flagged Industrial, while the Confederacy will be flagged Infantry Units. Each will have a varying relationship with the other types. This will basically "steer" the AI toward specific tech choices (Union more toward Industrial, Naval, Infantry, and Artillery in that order, Confederacy more toward Cavalry, Infantry, Structural, and Artillery in that order, both will be roughly average for Scientific)
There will be more additions and changes, but this is a good starting list.
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