An Ancient India Scenario

[Blue Monkey]

I agree with everything you point out. And thanks for raising those concerns - you've considered them a lot more closely than I have so far. This aspect of the map is still at the hazy outline stage. Please continue to post your thoughts - they are very helpful in refining my thinking.

The reason I was thinking of the LM mts is because we're only talking about a few islands which would be 1 tile or two at the most. Since the whole island would be "mountain" the relative size wouldn't matter as much. I have a little experience experimenting with enlarged mountain bases. Tried this out when working on the Gaea map. Even if it means spending some extra time to fiddle with a pcx file it might be better to reserve a base terrain +overlay for a more extensive application rather than lose two slots for less than a dozen tiles on the map.

There's a definite need to represent the Rann in a way that means devoting a terrain - probably not just a lm terrain - to it. There is mangrove swamp adjacent to the Rann as well as elsewhere. Mangrove that clears to salt marsh makes more sense to me than clearing it to verdant grassland. The grass>plains>desert problem should be minimal. A variant riparian terrain would probably have at least a narrow band of grassland before transition to plains/desert.



Just to help us all keep the possibilities straight these are the special terrains that are under consideration:

• mountain passes - solved by using lm hills.
• coral reefs
• mangrove as distinct from normal marsh
• Rann (salt marsh)
• hardwood and or bamboo - lm forests
• thorn scrub - either lm plains or desert?

 

[Takhisis]

Tak, thanks for pointing out this very interesting concept. I think we might be able to use it. If you have some specific applications I am all ears.

As I pointed out there, capturing Elephant units as a resource would be feasible:

Hmmm. Can be used with, for example, Elephants. We place a few barbarian 'Elephant' units around one of those goody huts, if you manage to defeat them or drive them away then you can tame the ones that remain.

(Or also camels up in the northwest to traverse Gedrosia? Depends on how far West the map will stretch)

Or, assuming you reinstated the spaceship/trade victory:

What about making this the ONLY way to get a certain resource and this be required for a wonder or a spaceship victory?

Fight it out with the natives to install a factory?

 

[Blue Monkey]

Working with the map - adding marsh / forest - something subliminal kept jarring. Been working with a mathematically correct version. Trying a stretched (N to S) aspect ratio based on the same bmp makes a more visually pleasing map (imho).

The difference may seem subtle looking at the minimap. But here are identically sized screenshots to compare:

Spoiler :

In game terms "Mathematically Correct" primarily means that it takes as long to march in a straight line N/S as it does E/W. The effects of "Visually Pleasing" are easier to see comparing smaller areas up close:

Gangetic Plain:

Spoiler :

Lanka:

Spoiler :

In game terms this means a longer N/S march. Which means it takes longer to grab the same amount of territory N/S than on a mathematically correct map. To my eye places like Lanka and the Rann look closer to their natural shape with the visual stretch. The Gangetic Plain will have more room for civs to expand. The Himalayas will be a thicker barrier. "Pocket" areas like the Tibetan valleys & the Yavanas' home ground will be larger, but only by a tile or 2 on average. These can be either advantages or disadvantages depending on how you look at it.

My instinct is to go with the visually pleasing aspect ratio. OTOH, I'm perfectly willing to do a mathematically correct map. Right now - before getting into detailed changes in the editor - is the juncture where the decision needs to be made.

What do you think, 7ronin? + Rambuchan if you're lurking.

 

[Yoda Power]

Mathematical correct is a false name really. The earth is round and maps are flat so you can never make a mathematical correct map. Even more with the perspective you've choosen. Why? Because it's a snapshot of a globe, that means that the area closer to the equator (i.e. the bottom) will be oversized. By streching the map you actually add relatively more land to the northern part, thereby in a way giving you are more correct map.

So there you have it. The visually pleasing one is the most accurate one. That's probably why you think it looks better.

Nice start.

edit: Just realised the point about the equator is not technically true, but it doesn't change the point.

 

[Blue Monkey]

We're in agreement about the map to real surface comparison. Meant "correct" in a different sense: "correct" in terms of how the game engine looks at the numbers. From that pov it's just numbers in an array. More like coordinates on a graph than a map.

Thanks for the input on the "look and feel". You've been a big help from the beginning of my map-making experience.

 

[7ronin]

My preference is for the "visually pleasing" map. I think it looks great and will do the best job for the scenario.

 

[Blue Monkey]

The scenario designer & the master map-maker agree. That's all the support needed. Since it's time for detail work it may be a while before a new biq is posted. Will try to post screenshots of the wip as different areas get worked on.

 

[7ronin]

Take your time. I've got lots of scenario odds and ends cooking.

 

[7ronin]

It's out of our timeframe but Stico's new Hittite city graphic would probably work for Harappa (another great but completely neglected ancient civilization in Civ3).

 

[Blue Monkey]

I thought so also. The individual buildings look right. But the Harappans were fanatics about straight streets.

 

[Takhisis]

You should transform the map back into 'Mathematically correct' mode!

 

[7ronin]

Game enjoyment has as much to do with the look of the game as it does with mechanical things. People have an idea in their heads of what the "map" of India should look like. The isometric version may be mathematically correct but it does not match that conception. Players may not be aware of this on a conscious level but it is definitely something which affects their perception of the game. That's the reason I opted for the "visually pleasing" version.

 

[Takhisis]

But the Harappans wouldn't be happy…

 

[Blue Monkey]

Spoiler :

Can't even call this a wip screenshot - more of a teaser. Roughing out the major rivers - the three major watersheds are displayed. Which will help guide finer placement of the ranges. After that placing tributaries & minor rivers will show how to handle the surrounding terrain(s).

 

[Takhisis]

Could that font be used in the civilopedia?

 

[Blue Monkey]

Been listening to Jaya.* The only telling of the Mahabharata in English that incorporates the many folk & non-Indian versions into the canonical afaik. Even Jain versions of some of the stories, for example. The narrative is interspersed with enlightening background & explanatory comments that are clearly separated with auditory cues. There are things in that part that would be directly relevant to this scenario.

All the participants are South Asian. Apart from the author they're part of a theatrical group. While the accents are evident they're easily understood. It's superbly written & presented imho. Impressed enough that I'm going to get the print version as well.




* The free trial membership at Audible can legitimately be canceled before it costs you anything. Don't want to do that? The Amazon price works out to 4¢ a minute.

 

[Takhisis]

4¢ a minute.

Link to video.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Here are the promised map scans. They're all line-art. Source citations added to each.

Mauryan Era Maps for City Lists

 

[7ronin]

I'm back on the job. The map teasers look great!

 

[Blue Monkey]

Just figured you were too busy working to post.