An Emperor Challenge on the new patch?

[aelf]

Should we have it?

If we should, I have an idea for it. Nazdreg (sorry if I spelled your nick incorrectly) had suggested a techwhoring game as Wang Kon some time ago. I'm thinking of giving this a further twist by lightbulbing Philosophy and building the Angkor War for a superpriest-oriented game. Do you think this is too demanding on the new patch?

Any other suggestions are welcome

 

[patagonia]

I think those all sound like good ideas for a game.

The superpriest economy takes a bit of serious beelining to get up and running effectively, but is a great way to demonstrate Ironworks/Wall Street synergy. Is it worth having a go at manipulating which becomes the holy city for Taoism so that it will be a suitable site for those national wonders down the line?

EDIT: (hmm... half of my reply evaporated)
Standard pangea would probably be the best map type for this game, and has the advantage of being an easier map to beat the AI on, which would nerf some of the damage inflicted by the patch.

As NaZ pointed out (below), the priests and techwhoring don't necessarily go hand in hand, but it seems perfectly viable to have one city highly specialised for high gold and hammer output while the rest are pumping beakers, so I'd say it's viable all the same. It'll give you a few more great prophets than you strictly need, but they'll be very effective settled there with the relevant building multipliers.

 

[NaZdReG]

Aelf,

ahh the debate begins. yes play under the patch you will find the game balance better and the AI more of a challenge.. but emperor will not be soo easy so it will again add to the difficulty level.

Korea is protective and financial, giving way to a science based somewhat defensive early empire.

their UB increases the research of the university to +35%, so you can have 6 cities with great beaker output while getting the prereqs to oxeford ready.

if you want to combine this with religion because they start with myst, all the better as temples increase happy for another cottage, monastaries increase research, univ of sankore will pay off from that specific effort, AND improved diplo except to the founder of the other early religion..

if you happen to start by stone grab the pyramids, otherwise I'd shoot for the great library. no running of caste system but with the library then the GL you'll get scientists. I would advocate THIS EARLY in discussion running:
library, monastary, university, academy in 6 different cities. oxeford in the capitol or another city with high beaker output. (like if you wanted to build the GL in another city and leave a beurocracy powerd capitol to make military units)

last emperor's challenge you had the capitol in the 200bpt's and 1 other city nearing the 100bpt's. last time I played this way I had 6 cities well over 100bpt by the time I could build oxeford. all other scientists should either be settled in the capitol or popped for techs. once the cottages hit full the beaker output is a bit gross. run scientists on top of it if you get ahead in pop or just to boost overall beaker output.

dedicate a different city to production of archers like crazy, but be prepared to switch gears when you unlock hwachas. those by themselves with minimal protection of archers will steamroll cities in this time period. pick someone and wipe them out.. maybe another civ as well before the hwacha loses its usefullness. right about then you unlock longbows, upgrade your archers in the fronteir and dig in until you're ready to conquest again.

as far as philo, by all means. but I'd stay away from priests except to get the shrine out. scientists are worth more beakers for tech popping and you might want to try popping 6 academies and see what it does to tech speed

You play better midgame then me so I'm sure you can capitolize on this better, but those are my suggestions

NaZ

edit: added bpt marker to clairfiy for other readers

 

[Sisiutil]

The AI has been tweaked a little, and going by posts on the board it makes for a more challenging game. The rule changes also appear as though they would add more balance. I think an Emperor-level game in your series would be educational, fun, and popular. Go for it!

And by the way, the Koreans' UU has a scary animation. I ran into the Hwacha while playing the Barbarians scenario and I was checkin' my shorts for cake after my first encounter with them.

 

[cabert]

22-0 is a nice score...
go for it

 

[kniteowl]

Super Priest Production City I wouldn't mind you implementing that if you can handle it on emp level with the new patch, good thing the patch doesn't incluide blake new improved AI where they use their Great People Effectively... In most of my game the AI has gotten Taoism before 1AD on Prince level.

Although I prefer using Expansive Civs or Cyrus (+2 health UB) because the most limiting factor of the the Priest Prodcution City is Health, Happiness is quite easy to deal with the culture Slider and HR civic.

It may take a while to complete Angkor Wat, it's worth 500H (same as piramids post patch) So you may decide to Oracle slignshot to Metal Casting to pick up forges and assign an Engineer specialist for a GE to rush Angkor Wat.

Try and find a suitable City Spot, with plenty of food, near the coast for a habour and possibly Naval unit construction and try to avoid Floodplains, generally any city location with 3 or more tiles of them because you'll increase health problems.

The Best City locations are genrally near the Equator with plenty of grassland tiles and Happy/health resources like sugar, rice and bananas, settling near a river if you can, if you can't settle near the coast. both a river and coastal city if your lucky.

Seafood resources that are in your city's fatcross will be useful, and try to limit as many Coastal & Ocean tiles as possible.

If you can't handle the post patch emp level I wouldn't mind if you decide to use this strategy in the your next game after wangkong.

I generally have my Priest production City set up around the time Maces start to appear, although with the pace of teching with the new patch that might not be reasonable.

In my personal opinion I think you should start the new Emp Challenge on Epic Speed to help get you used to it. (assuming you were playing on normal speed in previous games)

 

[voek]

I am back from holiday and missed a big part of ECM 3, so you owe me a new one

Is it going to be soon, since I am dubbing to play one myself, going back to Emperor, or play a shadowgame. On second hand, I will do both...

 

[voek]

Oh, btw what is the most recent patch / update from Blake and which are 'we' gonna play?

 

[Jorunkun]

Gutsy to take on Emperor post-patch ... go for it.

As for your choice of civand strategy, how about some old skool warmongering? Should be more of a challenge than one would think, what with Blake's AI in place. Suggest you take Rome and see whether you can get to conquest or domination with those Praetorians.

Oh, and good luck.

 

[Jorunkun]

Oh, btw what is the most recent patch / update from Blake and which are 'we' gonna play?

Let's stick with the official patch for reference. It's tough enough as is. Plus I am not sure the newer builds are 100% stable.

 

[ostraume]

I would like to se a challenge with normal time. You will not have as much time for warmongering as on Epic, which will give the game an extra edge. I would very much like to see how this is solved.

Btw: First post. Hi all!

 

[Killroyan]

Too bad it is on emperor otherwise I would have proposed to get the oracle and stonehenge for the GP points to get more priests.

I like the series a lot. Keep it coming.

 

[UncleJJ]

I agree with NaZdReG, stick with scientists and build up a scientific infrastructure. I am a big fan of Angkor Wat as you know from my other posts ... but not here. It will be good to see how you blend a research oriented game with the Protective trait and the Korean UU and UB.

Angkor Wat and super priests will need plenty of food to be effective and are therefore more suited to a SE or Hybrid economy and that conflicts with your Financial trait and the need to build cottages which reduce food availability. I would wait for a spiritual or philosophical leader before making the super priests a central part of my game. Don't rule it out until we see the map and opponents but it is likely to conflict with your other objectives. If you plan for any wonder I would aim for Colossus on a map with plenty of coast as that makes for fast development and big commerce.

 

[Jet]

"Yes, please."

I'm not sure what you mean by superpriest-oriented. Angkor Wat priests are good, but not compelling to me unless you can run Representation. You have to build the temple (not that temples are a bad building), but then - if you had to choose just one wonder - you'd get more from Sankore. And prophets aren't the best great people by the time you can finish Angkor Wat. Angkor Wat priests might fit into a Cultural Victory game with Caste System, and priests as an alterative to Slavery for converting food into hammers. Still not that compelling without Representation...

How about attempting some peacemongering? Korea is cool, but as Gandhi you could get Philosophy more easily, and cheap temples, and run Pacifism and be thematic and all. You could try something like tropical archipelago with tiny islands, which might lend itself to peaceful expansion and getting production from specialists.

Not that everything has to fit together perfectly. Really want to do Korea with priests? Sure, try it!

 

[aelf]

Btw: First post. Hi all!

Welcome to Civfanatics!

Anyway, about the Angkor Wat, we'll see how it goes. I was thinking we might be running scientists early anyway, and lightbulbing Philosophy with a GS is an option.

And the next game will be on Epic speed. Better familiarise ourselves with Emperor on the new patch first (yes, it will be the official one). I was thinking of playing the usual style of controlled warmongering. Maybe we can go for a big push when Hwachas come into the picture but expand only gradually in the other eras? A crowning victory for us would be a space one. A slap in the face of the better AI

 

[NaZdReG]

Aelf,

you will find controlled expansion to be to korea's advantage. early rex a few cities.. maybe worker steal if its like toku or someone.. bulk up with archers as the protective trait makes them hella mean. hwachas = the death of 1-2 civs depending on your preperations. archers go with and upgrade to lbows to defend your new land.. maces, xbows (protective again), and trebs come as wave 3. CR3 maces upgrade and will keep up with protective gunpowder units with cannons for wave 4. you know the rest. each wave should wipe out a single civ and if you follow the tech whore path you should be able to stay atleast even with the ai.. pull ahead if you really focus. the time between waves will make sure you can do that.

best of luck when does the game start??

NaZ

 

[aelf]

best of luck when does the game start??

I'm busy this weekend so the earliest it can begin is Monday.

 

[flamingzaroc121]

i have tried a game like that, and ended up with FPs

i was well ahead and for awhile no one could catch up

 

[aelf]

I think I might have time tonight to post the new thread. See you there!

 

[UncleJJ]

Anyway, about the Angkor Wat, we'll see how it goes. I was thinking we might be running scientists early anyway, and lightbulbing Philosophy with a GS is an option.

Angkor Wat is a good way to generate a middle game prophet for a shrine. Typically Confusionism or Taoism are hard to get a shrine for if that is your first religion. Without Angkor Wat I find that it can be difficult to make a prophet when it requires say 600 GPPs for the next GP. In that situation you have probably not built Oracle or Stonehenge and so there has been no long term accumulation of prophet GPPs. A single priest run from a temple is not going to be able to compete with say the Great Library and a couple of food scientists in your Science City. Take for instance the situation in your last game EMC3 where Medina had so little food it could not generate another prophet for the Jewish shrine. Despite having Stonehenge and the Christian shrine in Medina the 3 GPPs/ turn were useless as there was too little food to run priests, although you could have run up to 4.

Building Angkor Wat in a good production and food city allows you to run 3 priests, plus another priest from a temple, plus it gives 2 GPPs itself, that can give 14 GPPs / turn at the cost of 8 food. At that rate you can make a prophet in a reasonable period of say 50 turns (at normal speed so 50% longer at Epic).

Finally, I think moving to Epic speed is a good move, after applying the patch, as that will allow more time to exploit any military advantage.