An old idea reborn: Ministry of Finance and Labor

[Sarevok]

Ill agree with that boots. I didnt even see that at large would be removed...

 

[Chieftess]

To answer your question - yes, the Senate will become a body with no purpose. And good riddance.

And an idea that I (and donsig) conceived will finally be laid to rest after 4 demogames!

"Is responsible for all uses of cash." Hey - this Minister can proactively rush items, even if the Governor DIDN'T request anything because they, like all too many Governors, forgot.

Hmmm, this is really looking pretty nice!

That's the way it used to be done. Culture also had the power to rush a culture improvement in any city that didn't have control of all 20 tiles. (granted, that wording means new cities). So, I'd rather propose that to include cities which have foriegn tiles within their 20 tiles.

So we really have to write down that every request will be polled.

Sounds like the good old days! However, that could get cumbersome with a huge civ. Back then, there was a budget thread. Governors would post cash rush requests, and the Domestic Advisor would pick out ones that were worth rushing. Here's the problem with voting on every issue. You're simply gonna flood the polls with a myriad of "Should we rush X in Y?" polls. Voting, "Should we rush a library in A,B,C...X,Y,Z?" gets redundant and boring. Perhaps, a simple, "Do you approve of this budget?" would do.

Concluding: we should be really carefull by giving someone much responsibility.

Sounds like DG1. But, it's really splitting Domestic's old job of handling the sliders, and a job that no one really had control over (workers).

I'd also like to add that I would really like to see someone who manages a city plan. Traditionally, this was all done by domestic (an unwritten rule if you will). Take DR for example. Since we're building infrastructure, I might like to see the city grow to size 12 as quickly as possible. So, I might want a laborer to use the floodplains instead of the hills. If not being allowed to do this, the DFL should be able to post guidelines, and City Plans.

A city plan would be this - Assigning cities to play certain roles in the civ (i.e., worker factory, military city, science city, culture war city). Unless Internal Affairs should be doing this...

Here's the trick - the MFL is in charge of cash, so if a trade is approved via vote or overwhelming support in discussion, the MFL better approve the cash, or face a CC. When the people speak, leaders had better listen. Think about what would happen if a vote approved a trade, and the Trade Ministry instructed the DP NOT to do the trade. Same situation, different leader affecting the trade.

We had the same issues in DG1 and 2, only it was a PI back then. *ALL* cashflow had to go through the budget thread. Back then, it was like this:

Governors - requests for rushes.
Foreign Affairs - requests for gold exchanges in any alliances, peace deals, espionage, etc.
Domestic - They were in charge of the budget thread, and could state something like, "please maintain an emergency budget of atleast 200g".
Military - Requests for upgrades
Culture - Requests for culture rushes in border cities
Science - Never had to request anything IIRC...
Trade - Requests for gold and gpt in trade deals.

For the most part, governor and culture requests were the most common, along with some trade requests.

 

[ybbor]

so now are we also planning to add Minister of Culture, and Minister of City Plans/planing?

EDIT: sounds like we're almost overhauling the whole system, but i'm still in favor of this chnages (right now)

 

[Bootstoots]

The IA minister should be dealing with city planning and culture. I see no need to add two more ministries.

 

[Furiey]

Rather than adding another office to cover budgets etc, how about assigning it to the VP and making that an elected position.

This would:
a. give the VP something to do
b. making VP elected would solve the issue of an appointed official being higher in the CoC than elected ones
c. ensure the VP kept an overview of the whole game putting him in a better position to take over as DP from the President

As the VP is currently head of the senate this effectively keeps budget in the same place but gives an individual responsibility for it, and as the president is currently in charge of worker actions (sort of) this just moves it down the line.

 

[Chieftess]

Or, we could just give the above listed resposibilities to the VP. But, we used to elect the VP right along with the President (runner up was the VP).

 

[ravensfire]

Originally posted by Furiey
Rather than adding another office to cover budgets etc, how about assigning it to the VP and making that an elected position.

This would:
a. give the VP something to do
b. making VP elected would solve the issue of an appointed official being higher in the CoC than elected ones
c. ensure the VP kept an overview of the whole game putting him in a better position to take over as DP from the President

As the VP is currently head of the senate this effectively keeps budget in the same place but gives an individual responsibility for it, and as the president is currently in charge of worker actions (sort of) this just moves it down the line.

Immediate problem that I can see is line of succession. Pres leaves office. VP (his deputy) takes over. BUT, VP must resign from MFL or resign from Presidency.

Instead of just one office that's going through change, we now have two. Bad, very bad.

It's much simpler and better to leave the VP as is - a deputy with some differences. The MFL is a seperate office, it needs to be elected and treated the same as every other office.

-- Ravensfire

 

[ravensfire]

Originally posted by Chieftess
But, we used to elect the VP right along with the President (runner up was the VP).

You know, I think I'm going to completely avoid the ruleset process for the next DG, then point out everything I don't like once we start. That just sounds like a fun plan to me!

-- Ravensfire

 

[Sarevok]

is that sarcasm?

 

[ravensfire]

Originally posted by Sarevok
is that sarcasm?

Who, me?

-- Ravensfire

 

[Chieftess]

So... when do we vote on this?

 

[ybbor]

i just must insist that we change the wording. particually the part him/her bieng responsible for all financial matters. possibly to has cntrol over the budget, and approves uses of money

 

[Chieftess]

"possibly have control over the budget"? Having control over the budget is one of the main points! Like I said before, back in past demogames, this was all done by domestic.

 

[ybbor]

no no, i was talking about changing thw wording, i sugested that possibly we could use the wording that they aprove all uses of money i wasn't contesting the point of this thread

 

[Sarevok]

so why isnt a poll up yet?

 

[GenMarshall]

Originally posted by Sarevok
so why isnt a poll up yet?

I wish to volunteer to post up the poll. Just tell me what options and how long the poll should last, and I shall do the rest .

 

[Sarevok]

good! some progress!

 

[GenMarshall]

Here are the options of the poll. (Its an old habit from the older Demogames)

Title of Thread: Adding the Ministry of Finance and Labor
Title of Poll: Shall we accept this motive

• 
  Yes
  No
  Abstain

Ministry of Finance and Labor

Constitution Changes:
Article D:
Add: 5. The Minister of Finance and Labor is responsible for all financial matters and managing the Fanatican workforce, as prescribed by law.

Change: Change the number of advisors from 4 to 5.

Code of Laws Changes:

Section B.1:
Remove: 1.d Is responsible for worker activities.
Renumber all succeeding sections.

Section B.2:
Change: a. ... Leaders of the 5 Departments

Add: i. Ministry of Finance and Labor
1. Is responsible for determining the slider settings
2. Is responsible for determining all uses of cash
3. Is responsible for all worker activities

Section C.1
Remove: a.2.A. At-Large Governors
a.2.b VP votes on ties
c. Slider votes
d. Cash Requests

Section C.3
Remove: entire section

Section F.3
Add: f. Minister of Finance and Labor
Renumber: all sections below (starting with Chief Justice)

Remove: i. At-Large Governors

Section G
Add: g. Minister of Finance and Labor

Code of Standards Changes:
Section J.3.d
Remove: 2 At-Large Governors

Poll

 

[Sarevok]

Thanks CG

 

[ravensfire]

Psst - take a gander at the CoL and CoS sections on amending those books. We're missing a few steps.

We've also still got some people with questions/concerns on this that would be nice to address.

So, if you have a question about this specific proposal - toss it out.

If you object to it, and have a different plan, please toss that out as detailed as possible (basically, similar to the above proposal).

-- Ravensfire