Analysis of Romney's defeat

[GhostWriter16]

The point is that Hamilton and Adams were for liberty for everyone. And for a prosperous free market economy. (The era was a bit pre-capitalist). Jefferson and Madison were for there to be nothing that might restrict the rights of slavers, no matter what effect that might have on any person who was not a slaver. So the H&A side, which you should recall Washington was also actively on, was the side that was more for liberty.

Washington was neutral for awhile. He leaned Fedrealist but was never nearly as tyrannical as Hamilton or Adams (Washington didn't pass the alien and sedition acts or argue for all sorts of "Implied powers", national debt, or an unlimited Federal government.)

Washington was far from perfect though. Jefferson was far, far better.

Not so much, no. If you look at how it played out, many, many, more people in the North were able to own their own property. Were able to start and run small businesses. Were able to create their own fortunes, or at least make the attempt to do so. Compare that to the slave states, the elite were the elite, they were the political leadership, and it was a nearly closed aristocracy. And the only way in to that aristocracy was to become a slaver.

Yeah, that's because they had slavery. That was a pretty major flaw. But almost everyone believed in slavery back then.

 

[Cutlass]

Washington was neutral for awhile. He leaned Fedrealist but was never nearly as tyrannical as Hamilton or Adams (Washington didn't pass the alien and sedition acts or argue for all sorts of "Implied powers", national debt, or an unlimited Federal government.)

Washington was far from perfect though. Jefferson was far, far better.



Yeah, that's because they had slavery. That was a pretty major flaw. But almost everyone believed in slavery back then.

No, Washington was always fully on board with the Hamiltonian program. It was his. Neither Hamilton or Adams was as tyranical as Jefferson. Both were better men. Both were batter for America.

In all seriousness, how is it even possible that you can still by parroting this lying crap after all this time? How is it possible that you have learned nothing?

 

[GhostWriter16]

Continual rhetoric does not a point make.

When did Jefferson ban freedom of speech, tell me that? Adams did. In fact, Jefferson tried to get his own state to leave the Union because of Adams' tyranny.

 

[Archbob]

Jefferson generally was for limited government until the Louisiana purchase came around. He did that because the overwhelmingly large percentage of Americans wanted it.

 

[Cutlass]

Jefferson generally was for limited government until the Louisiana purchase came around. He did that because the overwhelmingly large percentage of Americans wanted it.

But what he was actually for was limited federal government so that it would not interfere with tyranny on the state, local, and private levels. You cannot separate Jefferson's position on federal powers from his protection of slavery. They are the same thing.

 

[Arakhor]

Continual rhetoric does not a point make.

At the risk of sounding catty, you could benefit from your own advice.

 

[WindFish]

Dommy shows his true colours at last.

 

[JollyRoger]

That's true, but what are the odds of a pro-Dem wave happening any time soon?

That's what the GOP was thinking when it was redistricting after the 2000 census.

 

[downtown]

Wait, did we seriously go from the 2012 election to talking about freaking slavery AGAIN?

 

[ace99]

Well as a strong supporter of slavery.....

 

[Crezth]

When did Jefferson ban freedom of speech, tell me that?

Well he never did that, but the Louisiana purchase was an illegal and egregious overreach of federal power. Jefferson was a tyrant and, worse, evil.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Jefferson generally was for limited government until the Louisiana purchase came around. He did that because the overwhelmingly large percentage of Americans wanted it.

But what he was actually for was limited federal government so that it would not interfere with tyranny on the state, local, and private levels. You cannot separate Jefferson's position on federal powers from his protection of slavery. They are the same thing.

You absolutely can. Jefferson supported slavery as much as any other Founding Father, but unlikle Hamilton and Adams, Jefferson did not support tyranny.

Well he never did that, but the Louisiana purchase was an illegal and egregious overreach of federal power. Jefferson was a tyrant and, worse, evil.

Jefferson argued it was justifiable under the power to make treaties. I'll be honest, I disagree with him on that decision, but considering it was practically the only thing he did wrong (In his presidency, I'm aware he owned slaves personally) he still ranks pretty highly for me.

I wouldn't be shocked if Ron Paul passed him, were he to get into the White House. But then again, maybe not. Nobody is perfect.

Few people give a crap about freedom anymore, however, so unlike Jefferson in his day, Ron Paul would never be elected President (Blessed be the 10 percent of the population who was behind him)

 

[JollyRoger]

10%?

 

[Leoreth]

Why isn't Ron Paul US President?

a) People hate freedom.
b) Ron Paul is a crazy lunatic who doesn't know what he's talking about most of the time.

Tough call

 

[say1988]

Why isn't Ron Paul US President?

a) People hate freedom.
b) Ron Paul is a crazy lunatic who doesn't know what he's talking about most of the time.

Tough call

How can you criticise a man who believes that if the government had allowed gas to rise to $20 per gallon in New York after Sandy it would have ensured that people who needed gas would have had plenty available. Because we all know, need and ability to pay go hand in hand.

 

[Crezth]

Jefferson argued it was justifiable under the power to make treaties. I'll be honest, I disagree with him on that decision, but considering it was practically the only thing he did wrong (In his presidency, I'm aware he owned slaves personally) he still ranks pretty highly for me.

You're awful tolerant of the federal government overstepping its boundaries if and when it suits your dialogue to ignore it. That's why, for example, you can praise the man who spent millions of taxpayer dollars on the unnecessary Louisiana territories, and hate the man who was the greatest and loudest advocate for American independence in the Continental Congress.

 

[WindFish]

Jefferson came up with the idea of the American Empire.

Believed the Native Americans were inferior and should be forcibly integrated into the USA.

Created the Embargo Act to stop merchants trading with the British

Segregated the US postal service.

Embargoed Haiti after the slaves rebelled.

Sold slaves to pay off his own debts.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Sold slaves to pay off his own debts.

Which we could do too, but then we'd have to elect a whole new congress.

 

[Nick Carpathia]

It's only okay if Libertarianism benefits me and Authoritarianism impedes others.

 

[Arakhor]

Rational people are not normally so vocal about their glaring inconsistencies.