Anarchy - the underrated government

Grille

panel insect
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Dec 19, 2002
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I recently started a PTW game and went for RCP style (RCP nostalgia...). I bought some techs, republic among them. When I revolted, I had <10 gold in my bank... my deficit under my 7-turn anarchy was about -50gpt IIRC. But no units/improvements were auto-disbanded, I 'spared' 350 gold w/o penalty! I never knew that, I always tried to avoid deficit spending during anarchy.

Now is this an exploit/bug or some sort of AI protection measure - since the AI likes to revolt ASAP and might suffer from deficit spending penalty?
:hmm:
Not sure yet if it's also present in C3C.

Anyways, I am considering to revolt more often in future... sweet anarchy.:love::cooool:
 
So, I am wondering if the AIs get their payment from you when you are running deficit with no Gold in your Bank.
If not, you may get a reputation hit.
Could you continue to buy Tech on credit after your anarchy period ?
 
I am unsure if the AI gets payment or if you get a rep hit but I have purchased republic or monarchy and when I revolted I got a big deficit which saved me the money while I was in anarchy. So I got to the point where I would max my debt and revolt to avoid paying them... then change to a govt that offers more money.
 
well in my experiences you and the AI's always get paid when either one has no gold left in the bank and are running a deficit.

Your rep does not suffer at all.
 
Yes, running a deficit means that any existing gpt payments to other civs will be continued. They obviously get their gold from some 'invisible fund', thus the deals continue and no rep hits occur (you can check on active deals table). Same goes for AI civs that pay gpt to you (you can use it to bankrupt them, especially if you *feel* they receive gpt from another civ and that money source is about to run out soon for them).

But if you're not in anarchy and run a deficit, you lose one city improvement and one unit each turn as penalty. This may hurt especially in the early game, but lateron, deficit spending plus max research is a very powerful exploit: set tax to 100%, trade all gpt away, then set tax to 0%. You would then lose 20 buildings and 20 units, which is a minor penalty compared to the benefit you could get (imagine a decent sized empire on a not so small map - losing some workers and some granary [say your core cities have already reached size 12] or barracks here and there is a joke compared to the benefits you could get). IMHO this penalty should not be constant, but possibly depend on the deficit itself: E.g. # of units improvements to be disbanded each turn increases with the amount of the deficit (maybe expensive stuff like cavalry or universities will even be regarded first), and/or map size/empire size dependent (e.g. percentage of OCN reached so far as indicator). IIRC, the penalty was much more hurting in prior civ versions (AFAIK you'd auto-sell as many buildings as possible per turn trying to even out the debt!).

The usual deficit exploit (normal government plus huge deficit spending with a comparibly low penalty at some point) is something I don't use.
But I'm not sure about anarchy deficit spending. No penalty, but that's limited to anarchy length. Although you could possibly have much earlier a republic government (in case you traded a lot) and at that early game phase, the earlier benefit of a republic (or monarchy) could be very vital. OTOH, as mentioned in the first post, the AI civs would certainly benefit from this rule, too, since they tend to revolt more often than the human player (ok, max gov transition times are very low for them on higher levels, but anyways).

So is anarchy deficit spending an exploit (or some bug/glitch that needs to be fixed) in your opinion? Do you use it (and does it work in C3C)?

PS: ainwood, what's wrong with enhanced forestry operations & scientists?
:lol:
 
techincally anarchy mean, without government, but no production seems too much to deal with IMO
 
That’s why Somalia will never be a productive country, until that anarchy stops.
 
Originally posted by Grille
Yes, running a deficit means that any existing gpt payments to other civs will be continued. They obviously get their gold from some 'invisible fund', thus the deals continue and no rep hits occur (you can check on active deals table). Same goes for AI civs that pay gpt to you (you can use it to bankrupt them, especially if you *feel* they receive gpt from another civ and that money source is about to run out soon for them).
:lol:

Yes this is right; also when you know AI is in GA and this is going to end very soon. However, I have seen AIs declaring when they are not able to pay anymore. I am not sure if AI will declare systematically when they are bankrupted, but this happens very often.
 
That is hard to tell - not sure if there's a somewhat -more or less- clear relation. Because on the other hand, I could get the impression that the AI "often" (;)) goes to war when they receive a lot of gpt - not counting in here those gpt deals that you make in a hurry when you see their SoD entering your territory and then ask to leave or declare.

Ok, apart from the rep hit question, war declaration likeliness and productivity problems in Somalia...
is *planned* deficit spending (i.e. spending all available gpt just before the revolt) during anarchy an exploit/bug or not?
 
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