Ancient Barbarians

[justokre]

I'm interested in learning about the slightly more rare barbarians of Eastern Europe, like the Alans, Scythians, Sarmatians, Sakae, etc.
I've been looking for a while now, but can't seem to find anything. I even looked on ebay for books.

If anyone has any useful links for me, I'd appreciate it very much

 

[Tee Kay]

There's heaps of sites on the internet. Just do a google search. Problem is some of the information on some of the sites aren't always correct.

I find this a very good site on ancient history: http://www.livius.org

Here's the link for the Sarmatians. And the Scythians.

 

[Mirc]

I'm interested in learning about the slightly more rare barbarians of Eastern Europe, like the Alans, Scythians, Sarmatians, Sakae, etc.
I've been looking for a while now, but can't seem to find anything. I even looked on ebay for books.

If anyone has any useful links for me, I'd appreciate it very much

Aren't Scythians and Sacae the same thing?

 

[Tee Kay]

They are (well almost). Herodotus called them "Sacae". They called themselves "Skudat", the Persians called them "Saka" or "Shaka" (as they were known when they set up a dynasty in Pakistan), the Greeks called them "Skythai" and the Chinese "Sai".

Typical historical name mix up, as you see.

 

[justokre]

Sheesh, well thank you very much for those links.

 

[Mirc]

They are (well almost). Herodotus called them "Sacae". They called themselves "Skudat", the Persians called them "Saka" or "Shaka" (as they were known when they set up a dynasty in Pakistan), the Greeks called them "Skythai" and the Chinese "Sai".

Typical historical name mix up, as you see.

Interesting. I think the Romans called them Scyithi, and there was a part of the kingdom of Dacia called "Scythia Minor", and another "Scythia Major". Which means they also existed in the area of northern Romania, Moldova and Soviet annexed areas of Romania (now in Ukraine). This means they were at some point in history as east as China, and at some point as west as central Europe.

Oh BTW: @justokre: change the spoiler in your sig before a mod gets here (spoilers are not allowed in sigs ).

 

[Tee Kay]

Here's a map showing the extent of Scythian peoples

 

[Mirc]

Thanks.

 

[civverguy]

I can't believe Mirc hasn't posted anything on the Dacians yet.

 

[Mirc]

I can't believe Mirc hasn't posted anything on the Dacians yet.

Dacians weren't really barbarians, at least not since the 4th/3rd century BC. And certainly not since 70 BC, when they were unified by Burebista, in a very large country for the time (about as big as France today). In any case, in the ADs, the Dacian Kingdom was the only fully organized state in Europe (with nobles, peasants, etc) outside the Roman Empire. This doesn't really make them barbarians, unless you understand by barbarian anything that's not Rome. And even if you do, in 106 AD most of Dacia became a Roman Province, and the areas unconquered, called Dacia Felix, suffered too a slow process of romanization, which actually proved beneficial centuries after that.

Dacian kingdom, under Burebista:

It's roughly in the area of modern Romania, but a lot of it has been taken by neighboring countries in various means in the following 2000 years. It was not much bigger than WW1 - WW2 (inter-war) Romania, though, with only 3 districts of Hungary and a part of Bulgaria missing.

 

[Mirc]

Oh and BTW, if you want links:

There's of course the wiki, pretty interesting, lots of related articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia
Clearly the best Dacian site out there, unfortunately you won't find any use in it most likely, as it's fully in Romanian: http://dacia.dracones.ro/

Absolutely no doubt this is the best picture site about Dacia, and fully in English: http://www.geocities.com/cogaionon/pictures.htm . However, not much historic information, but A LOT of interesting pictures.

 

[Naskra]

"barbaros" is just a greek word for "not greek". In that sense the Dacians were barbarians.

 

[Tee Kay]

"barbaros" is just a greek word for "not greek". In that sense the Dacians were barbarians.

So are the Romans, the Indians, the Chinese and the Americans.

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

"barbaros" is just a greek word for "not greek". In that sense the Dacians were barbarians.

IIRC, the root of the word barbarian comes from the word for 'beard' and it was the foreigners the Greeks thought had outlandish facial hair. So the real question is: did the average Dacian have a beard?

 

[Mirc]

IIRC, the root of the word barbarian comes from the word for 'beard' and it was the foreigners the Greeks thought had outlandish facial hair. So the real question is: did the average Dacian have a beard?

Well I know that in Latin (and in Romanian, and in Italian) "barba" means beard, and that the Romanian word for "man", "barbat", comes from the Latin "barbatus", which meant "person that has a beard". But I don't know if "barbarian" has the same etymology, I don't think "barba" or something along this lines was a word in Greek too.

And yes Dacians had beards. Their description according to various sources: "Light haired, blue eyed, tall men with long* beards and hair". Loose quote, as I read it in Romanian and translated it.

*well this part is not sure, it might mean what we currently call "medium" hair/beard. Not like old wizards.

 

[shortguy]

IIRC, the root of the word barbarian comes from the word for 'beard' and it was the foreigners the Greeks thought had outlandish facial hair. So the real question is: did the average Dacian have a beard?

My understanding is that it meant something like "the people who say "bar-bar'"; it's supposed to imitate the strange language of the non-Greek speakers.

 

[sydhe]

"Barbarian" comes from the Greek, who would not be using a Latin etymology. I don't know, though, what the Greek word for beard is. I've always heard the same story as shortguy.

 

[Naskra]

beard = pogon, pi omega gamma omicron nu

 

[Mirc]

beard = pogon, pi omega gamma omicron nu

interesting, we have the word pogon too, but it means something totally different. Anyway as I said above, I expected barbarian doesn't have anything to do with beards.

 

[Tomoyo]

When I learned the etymology of the word "barbaros," I was told that it meant "one who talked like 'bar bar'," which I think was the Greek for the sound a sheep made.