[NFP] Ancient Era Policy Elimination Thread

[Equilin]

Agoge (21)
Colonization (24)
Conscription (10)
Discipline (13)
God King (9) (12-3) The timing is rather bad. It's mostly used for pantheon, but you usually have to stick it longer than that (depending on civic progress) for minimal gains. Definitely weaker than the remaining policies (the gold is outshined by land surveyors and conscription)
Land Surveyors (12)
Urban Planning (22) (21+1) Most games I use it until late medieval, sometimes late Renaissance (avoid making it obsolete). very nice to start new cities off.

 

[Josephias]

Late to the party, but let's go. First post is a balancing act:

Agoge (21)
Colonization (21) [24-3] I won't deny this one is a very useful card, but I'm voting down to keep it in line with Agoge and Urban Planing, which you may use for an extended period of time. Building settlers takes production and population, so altough you will slot this one from time to time, and even if you want to assure you a lot of territory, you won't be permanently having this one slotted.
Conscription (10)
Discipline (13)
God King (10) [9+1] Will be one of the next ones to go, I agree with that. But I want to upvote it at least once, due to its must_slot_immediatly value. Of course, after you get your pantheon, it becomes useless.
Land Surveyors (12)
Urban Planning (22)

 

[Siddorm]

Agoge (21)
Colonization (21)
Conscription (7) [10-3]
Discipline (13)
God King (10)
Land Surveyors (13) [12+1]
Urban Planning (22)

I typically save more gold from Land Surveyors in one turn than the total gold I would save from Conscription in 10 turns.

 

[kaspergm]

Agoge (21)
Colonization (21)
Conscription (7)
Discipline (13)
God King (7) (10-3) - Yeah, I think it's time for this to go. Frankly I think the Pantheon argument for this one is overrated. Slotting God King will *not* be enough to get Religious Settlements, the only way to get that (except for civ specific abilities) is to either find a very early relic or start next to a faith resource/wonder and encounter a religious city state very early. Someone argued that this will help you get Divine Spark, which is a bit funny, because AI never takes Divine Spark. I guess it may help you get Desert Folklore or Sacred Path, however.
Land Surveyors (13)
Urban Planning (23) (22+1) - While Colonization may circumstantially outshine this, once you get a couple of cities, and if you manage to hit a Monumentality GA at some point, this just gives more hammers and is overall more generally useful.

 

[TCBB]

Agoge (21)
Colonization (21)
Conscription (4) (7-3)
Discipline (13)
God King (8) (7+1)
Urban Planning (23)

God King: clearly just a matter of gamestyles. I value pantheons very, very much. Without God King, I don’t get one.

Conscription: saves a few extra gold. A placeholder between much better cards.

 

[lilnev!]

Agoge (22) (21+1) Agoge has just been sitting here quietly while we talk about other policies. It knows it'll make Top 3 at least. Obviously, for early conquest this is THE policy. But even in peaceful games, this is key for mounting a credible defense against unfriendly neighbors.
Colonization (21)
Conscription (4)
Discipline (10) (13-3) Sure, there's the rare game where I'm savagely barb-rushed, and Discipline allows me to fend them off. Far more often, it just allows a couple of faster Eurekas. Mostly, it just makes life a little more comfortable until I get to Agoge and/or Archery.
God King (8)
Urban Planning (23)

 

[GinandTonic]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (21)
Conscription (1) (4-3)
Discipline (10)
God King (8) (7+1)
Urban Planning (23)

Craftsmen is a red slot now. Conscription was always weak sauce, but it was weak sauce slotted for most of the game. No longer. This change also rebalances red and yellow slots.

I still don't understand the people who are happy to go must of the game without a pantheon. Even a weak pantheon will double my culture.

 

[furyn]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (21)
Conscription (1) (4-3)
Discipline (10)
God King (8) (7+1)
Land Surveyor (13)
Urban Planning (23)

Not a vote, just a correction. Land Surveyor got dropped off the list a few posts back

 

[Leucarum]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (22)
Conscription (0) ELIMINATED
Discipline (10)
God King (8)
Land Surveyor (13)
Urban Planning (23)

Conscription (1-3) I do often use this card during early wars. It's definitely strong but trying to spread my downvotes a bit and I think this is where I have to vote if I'm not repeating.

Colonization (21+1) Unless you are monumentalitying everything you're gonna need this card

As an aside, people are talking about God King as if you won't get a pantheon without it. Where it matters is if you need one of the pantheons the AI prioritizes - and that's definitely not every game... A lot of the time I find you can get what you want without this card...

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (22)
Discipline (10)
God King (9) (8+1)
Land Surveyor (10) (13-3)
Urban Planning (23)

God King (9) (8+1) I disagree with that assessment. For me, it’s not (only) about getting the pantheon I want before the AI. It’s about getting that pantheon *on turn 25*. That’s a very early boost, which remains with you for the rest of the game.

Land Surveyor (10) (13-3). Would be criminal for Discipline or God King to go before this. Discipline helps you survive a potentially gaming-ending threat, and can grab you a bunch of early era score to set up a classical golden age. Land Surveyors is neat if you remember to use it, but it’s not more than that — neat.

 

[AntSou]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (22)
Discipline (10)
God King (6) (9-3)
Land Surveyor (11) (10+1)
Urban Planning (23)


God King - I can always get Faith some other way. The loss of land caused by not using Surveyor are permanent. (either you lose the tiles or you lose the city-state, by conquering it)

Land Surveyor - lets you grab potential very high yield tiles when your cities are below 3 Pop, which is the difference between fast and slow growth. It's also crucial to block city states from controlling tiles within your city range, without having to conquer the city-state itself.

 

[tedhebert]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (22)
Discipline (10)
God King (7) (6+1) Haven't voted for this one yet, I understand it's only until pantheon, but it still goes in each and every game until pantheon unless really lucky.
Land Surveyor (8) (11-3) I just cannot believe you people eliminated conscription before this
Urban Planning (23)

 

[JhGf_123]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (22)
Discipline (10)
God King (8) (7+1)
Land Surveyor (5) (8-3)
Urban Planning (23)

There is no argument here. One of these gives you a wide selection of long-lasting and powerful boosts, every game without fail, which last for the whole game. The other is only relevant sporadically and saves you gold, the most unimportant yield in the game.

 

[Qwan]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (22)
Discipline (10)
God King (8)
Land Surveyor (6) (5+1) Another way I use this card, is 1 turn before a civics change. If it's been a while since I changed policies, the cost to change will be low, and I can come out ahead if I buy at least two tiles. I like cards that benefit the skillful player. Unlike ...
Urban Planning (20) (23-3) Sure, I use this card a lot, but any card available to me is also available to the AI. At any difficulty higher than Prince, they benefit more.

 

[Atlas627]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (22)
Discipline (10)
God King (8 - 3 = 5) Yeah Pantheons are nice, but slotting this for 25 whole turns means not slotting Urban Planning for 25 turns. Sure I'll slot it for a few while I still don't have a 2nd city, and that shaves turns off me getting a pantheon from some other faith source, but do I need a pantheon on turn 25? It isn't doubling my culture on turn 25... I still need to spend a bunch of production (so, Urban Planning) for a Builder first. Oh, and you also don't get a Pantheon on turn 25 because you still have to research Code of Laws first...
Land Surveyor (6 + 1 = 7) This is extremely useful because you don't need to slot it for very long, and all the other early game cards are competing with each other for few slots, plus they are all things that need to be slotted for an extended period of time. This alone should make this an excellent card. Better than God King and probably on par with Discipline.
Urban Planning (20)

 

[Vargas1]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (22)
Discipline (10)
God King (6)
Land Surveyor (4)
Urban Planning (20)

God King (6) - Drivingrevilo said it well above. It's not just a question of getting a particular pantheon, but of when you get your pantheon. For that reason, most games there is a value to getting a pantheon as quickly as possible. As I see it, there are basically four categories of pantheon:

1. Religious settlements - almost always first to go, and very unlikely you'll get it from using God King
2. Competitive pantheons the AI will often go for - this would include (in my experience) the terrain pantheons, God of the Forge, Earth Goddess, and some others. If your strategy depends on one of these, God King may be the only way to get you there
3. Non-competitive pantheons, but with a strong early-game benefit - Goddess of the Hunt, Lady of the Reed and Marshes, any of the culture-providing pantheons - these are all most beneficial in the early turns of the game. You can probably still end up with Goddess of the Festivals if you wait until later in the game, but the real benefit is if you have three plantations in your first two cities and you end up doubling your culture output in those early turns
4. Pantheons that kick in more over time and that you don't need to rush for - if you're planning on going for Divine Spark (and not rushing religion or Hypatia), or River Goddess, or something else that doesn't matter all that much in the early game, then you don't need to rush your pantheon and can get away with ignoring God King.

The vast majority of my games involve categories 2 or 3, which is where God King will make a difference.

Land Surveyor (4) - A good and useful card, but this is the only card remaining that if it were removed, would not end up having a major impact on my game. I would save less money, but at the end of the day that wouldn't have too much of a setback.

 

[MrRadar]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (22)
Discipline (10)
God King (3) (6-3)
Land Surveyor (5) (4+1)
Urban Planning (20)

God King (3) (6-3) - This 'poor man's pantheon' card has stayed here long enough. You will use it only for 25 turns and if you absolutely don't have any other faith income. You pop a relic - you don't need it. You have some faith on the land - you don't need it. You go for a HS first - you don't need it.

Land Surveyor (5) (4+1) - I'll prop it up for the second and last time, promise The use of this card comes in brief moments, but it very impactful, and it is every game, contrary to GK. It will help you save money and grab a resource, a natural wonder, a future national park site, a district site long before natural border growth can claim those tiles.

 

[Naeshar]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (23)
Discipline (10)
God King (3)
Land Surveyor (2)
Urban Planning (20)

Land Surveyor (5 - 3) For buying a few tiles early it is not good investment - best used in short windows even then. Settling well is more important.
Colonization (22 + 1) best overall. Settlers are needed overall the most.

 

[bengalryan9]

Agoge (22)
Colonization (23)
Discipline (10)
God King (4) (3+1) I'll save God King from being eliminated with one more downvote, because while you *may* be able to get faith from other sources it's certainly not guaranteed that early in the game. No, it won't get you a free settler most times but there are other pantheons that I definitely want to nail down for myself before the AI does and God King makes it possible.
Land Surveyor (eliminated) (2-3) Maybe it's a sub optimal way to play, but I find I almost always have better things to spend gold on and rarely have enough to spend buying enough land tiles in order to make this worthwhile.
Urban Planning (20)

 

[enKage]

Agoge (23)
Colonization (23)
Discipline (10)
God King (1)
Urban Planning (20)

GodKing - it lasted too long.
-3
More reliable ways of pantheon is just to declare on a city state with a bad quest you were 2nd to meet and pillage plantation / pasture with added benefit of gaining experience or semi-distant AI with added benefit of joint war and alliance with someone you want and forcing AIs to go military = not into districts. Relying on t35 pantheon va god king is not a good idea. Opportunity cost of not working urban planning is 1 turn later worker -> later agoge or later settler and 2nd city.
I have nothing against slotting it for a few turns to speed up after first meet of religious state, but we are at top5 stage and god king has gone far too high (land surveyors, corvee, ilkum... or even conscription, cause there are stages in the game you would not have any aother red card needed ATM to slot)
Even if you don't pillage anything, some good pantheons are always left by AI, for example god of war, both culture pantheon, city goddess, quarries, hunting, strategic resources.....

Agoge +1
Must have every game to defend against early AI aggression or barbs