Ancient Units for GAK

[CivilizationRox]

Why don't they add axeman and other ancient units to the new expansion?

 

[Louis XXIV]

Probably because they were added in Civ4 solely for the rock-paper-scissors dynamic that isn't as important for Civ5 and they wouldn't have a clear role. I also think they overstated the importance of axe-wielding army groups in the ancient world.

 

[nokmirt]

They have to save some things for the third expansion right?

 

[AriochIV]

There was a slight gap in the Classical era between Archer and Crossbowman, but they appear to have filled that with the new Composite Bowman. I don't really see any other gaps to fill in the Ancient era land units.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

They have to save some things for the third expansion right?

<cough>second expansion<cough>

 

[nokmirt]

<cough>second expansion<cough>

Remember thats what we thought about the first expansion.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Remember thats what we thought about the first expansion.

What? God and Kings is the first expansion pack.

 

[nokmirt]

What? God and Kings is the first expansion pack.

Was there one before it?

 

[cuc]

Anyone thinks it would be a good idea to have Crossbowmen upgrade to something like rifle skirmishers / voltigeurs? The gap between Crossbowmen and gatling gun is indeed a bit jarring, and after all, the coexistence of Musketeer battle lines (muskets were cheap, mass-produced, but short-ranged) and rifle skirmishers (rifles had longer range, but were more expensive) were an important feature of 18th to early 19th century warfare. Unlike a lot of things in civ, Musketeers being close-ranged while skirmishers shooting from afar would actually have a historical basis.

I don't know how to justify the range difference between skirmishers and Riflemen when the Musketeer-to-Riflemen upgrade eventually happens, though.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Was there one before it?

You said the "third", I corrected you "second", God and kings is the first expansion pack.

God and Kings is the FIRST expansion pack.

but you somehow managed to say third expansion pack (saving axemen for third expansion pack). But there's no second expansion pack, God and King is the first expansion pack... my head hurts..

 

[nokmirt]

Anyone thinks it would be a good idea to have Crossbowmen upgrade to something like rifle skirmishers / voltigeurs? The gap between Crossbowmen and gatling gun is indeed a bit jarring, and after all, the coexistence of Musketeer battle lines (muskets were cheap, mass-produced, but short-ranged) and rifle skirmishers (rifles had longer range, but were more expensive) were an important feature of 18th to early 19th century warfare.

I don't know how to justify the range difference between skirmishers' rifles and Riflemen's rifles, though.

Maybe they should add a grenadier unit.

 

[nokmirt]

You said the "third", I corrected you "second", God and kings is the first expansion pack.

God and Kings is the FIRST expansion pack.

but you somehow managed to say third expansion pack (saving axemen for third expansion pack). But there's no second expansion pack, God and King is the first expansion pack... my head hurts..

Sorry, my fault, I did not realize I said third. I have had the use of the ASROC on my mind and made an error there. It does not surprise me that your head hurts.

 

[OsmarChito]

Why don't they add axeman and other ancient units to the new expansion?

becasue axemen were actually spearman the ancient spearman had something like an axe or blade beside the spear i don't really like the idea of axeman and that axeman could beat spearman while in real history spearman were the main soldiers

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Isn't there a 1-2 tech diffrence between each upgrade now?

 

[cuc]

Maybe they should add a grenadier unit.

Examples from other games:

Rise of Nations:

3 types of basic infantry:

Light infantry (slingers, javelins, etc, strong vs archers) upgrades into gunpowder infantry.

Archers (strong vs heavy infantry) are folded into gunpowder infantry, but their slot in the interface is replaced by machine gun.

Heavy infantry (strong vs cavalry) upgrades into anti-tank infantry, while cavalry upgrades into armored cars and tanks.


Age of Empires III:

Crossbowmen are an "archaic unit" that unlike other units, don't have the final Imperial Guard upgrade. However, they can be transformed into Skirmishers.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

Age of Empires III:

Crossbowmen are an "archaic unit" that unlike other units, don't have the final Imperial Guard upgrade. However, they can be transformed into Skirmishers.

Can they?!?

 

[cuc]

In Age of Empires III, the French civ has a card that can do this. There are a few similar "archaic unit transformation" cards for other civs too.


More about Rise of Nations:

Light infantry are basically slingers -> javelineers -> arquebusiers -> (gunpowder infantry) musketeer -> riflemen.

Heavy infantry are basically hoplites -> pikemen -> fusiliers -> anti-tank.

RoN also has different rock-paper-scissors dynamics for naval units: heavy ships; light ships; demolition ships upgrade into submarines; bombard ships are for coast attack, and fold into heavy ships; aircraft carriers.

 

[Ajuga]

Anyone thinks it would be a good idea to have Crossbowmen upgrade to something like rifle skirmishers / voltigeurs? The gap between Crossbowmen and gatling gun is indeed a bit jarring, and after all, the coexistence of Musketeer battle lines (muskets were cheap, mass-produced, but short-ranged) and rifle skirmishers (rifles had longer range, but were more expensive) were an important feature of 18th to early 19th century warfare. Unlike a lot of things in civ, Musketeers being close-ranged while skirmishers shooting from afar would actually have a historical basis.

I don't know how to justify the range difference between skirmishers and Riflemen when the Musketeer-to-Riflemen upgrade eventually happens, though.

Gatling guns were first used in around 1860 in the American Civil War.
I find that there really isn't a gap between crossbows and gatling guns.

 

[nokmirt]

Gatling guns were first used in around 1860 in the American Civil War.
I find that there really isn't a gap between crossbows and gatling guns.

I agree, crossbows upgrade to riflemen anyway, so the gatling fits into the scheme of things quite neatly. I cannot wait to use them.

I remember when I was modding Civ 4, one of the units missing was a true workable gatling gun. Some unit designers tried to create one, but could never get the barrels to fire correctly. The gatling gun was left out. Instead we used an old Russian machine gun to represent an earlier machinegun.

The unit looked similar to this. A PM M1910, which is a maxim machinegun with the old protective mounting.

 

[Babri]

Gatling guns were first used in around 1860 in the American Civil War.
I find that there really isn't a gap between crossbows and gatling guns.

Ribault could be another choice but it comes too early (14th-15th century), so gattling gun is fine as it will a good combination with rifles. Also we also have 3000BC warriors replaced by 14th/15th century jaguar warriors for Aztecs so that is not really a big problem.