Animal hunting for sport?

Well if I'm going big game hunting, I go for the best animal I can find. It would provide the best meat and trophy. Since tags cost lots $$$ why would I want to kill a whole bunch of deer and work to cut them up? One is enough.
As for gopher hunting, I try to get as many as I can. The best I got is 10 in an hour.
 
OK, so you go big game hunting and bring down a truly awesome buck - a magnificent animal - one that will get you an award and maybe in the local paper, and perhaps the heightened respect of your peers. Its a good day for you.

Now what would a pack of wolves done if they came upon this same animal. They would IGNORE it. WHY? Wolves hunt the young, the weak, the small, the sick, the elderly; they kill the fringes of the population. They leave the strong alone, no wolf wants to chance dying at a hoof or antler hit from a massive buck.
Survival in the wild means being very careful, the wolves watch their prey and single out the easist, most sure-thing kill.

So this buck survives the wolves and he gets to breed, and his genes - the genes of a good strong animal, get passed onto his young, and as a result the whole deer population gets stronger because the only the strongest are surviving. but because of your bullet - a thing which the buck has no defense against whatsoever - it is now dead, and the species is weakened as a whole. When its natural predators doing the killing, only the strong survive; when its a hunter doing the killing, only the lucky survive.
 
Magnus,

When you go to your local grocery store, what do you look for in your big juicy steaks? How much blood has accumulated in the wrapping? How about the grains of fat? Or the type of cut....either a backstrap or a chuck roast?

I look for size, both of body and rack. I also try very hard to minimize the movement of the animal prior to the killshot. An Elk that has been running for 10 minutes doesn't taste near as good.

~Chris
 
i hunt deers with bow and arrow. sometimes i hunt ducks with shotguns, other birds also.
I don't hunt deers with guns though, thats for pussies.
Its too easy to kill a deer with a gun.
 
Hey hey now Suntzu....


I agree, in Arkansas, where it is so wooded, you end up getting less than 75 yards anyways, and then it is pretty easy. You obviously have never hunted out here in the west...home of wide open spaces, where it is impossible to get a good 35 yarder with a bow, and it is more likely to be a 350 yarder with a .270.

So there.

:sniper:

~Chris
 
I'm talking about deers. Deers are too stupid, i've been within 5 feet of a deer before, i could probably touch him with my bow.
But yeah with animals that aren't as stupid you gotta use a rifle.
I like it when i hit a deer and i have to go up to it and slit its throat with my knife to make sure its dead :D
 
Originally posted by Magnus

...So this buck survives the wolves and he gets to breed, and his genes - the genes of a good strong animal, get passed onto his young, and as a result the whole deer population gets stronger because the only the strongest are surviving. but because of your bullet - a thing which the buck has no defense against whatsoever - it is now dead, and the species is weakened as a whole. When its natural predators doing the killing, only the strong survive; when its a hunter doing the killing, only the lucky survive.
Whoa, trying to use science now to justify why hunting is "immoral". Nice try, but...
You wrongly assumed that strength is the only attribute that counts, but other attributes can make the deer best suited to survive. Although I have a powerful piece of technology on my side but I'm just still an environmental pressure like the wolves are. Suppose if some deer have better eyes and can see me before I can get a good shot then they are the "strongest" and get to breed and their offspring will be more likely to survive.

Also note that hunting is regulated in North America. So if the populations get too low, less tags will be sold and less deer will be shot. So if think hunting will result in extinction of species, you're wrong.

Originally posted by SunTzu I don't hunt deers with guns though, thats for pussies.
I resent that. Although, I also live in an area where it has large open areas and need a rifle, but I don't hunt purely to kill animals but I also like shooting firearms as a hobby. Deer are just like targets that you can eat afterwards.
 
"Whats wrong Magnus, are there no food shops in Massachusetts?

"I just love that Ted Nugent worldview!"

Well, let's see--do you by chance eat red meat, Curt?

If so, let's compare you (and other eaters of beef products) with hunters.

People who eat farm-raised beef in industrialized countries have their "prey", if you will, live its life penned into a crowded feedlot, standing their whole lives in their own sh*t, and then have them killed with a hammerblow to the head.

A hunter has his prey living a free life in the wild, and ends its life with a (God willing) quick shot to the heart. And the killing is by no means a given--MANY hunters aren't successful in bagging a deer, bear, or whatever in the narrow time window of hunting season, as there is some element of challenge (especially in bow hunting, what I've generally done for years before moving back to the city) beyond herding a bunch of penned animals into a penned slaughterhouse.

And if you dress, cut, and freeze the entire animal properly, you can eat venison from ONE animal for months, without ever having to buy beef that was forced to live in penned-up squalor for the convenience of people who wish not to feel "involved" in the killing (but of course they still are).

I'll admit I eat beef myself occasionally and other farm animals more often, but I can see a bit more to admire in someone who actually is participating in the well-being of wild creatures, is lobbying to preserve wild habitats (so he can continue hunting of course, but who cares about the motive if the wilds ARE being preserved), and who would rather take an animal on fairer terms than making their prey live in their own sh*t in feedlots, and herding them into assembly-line slaughterhouses....

Now if you are a vegetarian, Curt (you haven't indicated that though), then at least you have a consistent and non-hypocritical argument, one I can respect. However if you eat ANY form of meat then you, too, have blood on your hands. At least SOME people can look their prey in the eye, though....

And Drekken forgave you for using the term "redneck", but I will not. Who do you think YOU are, looking down on people who farm, people who may have coarser hands than you, may not have had the luxuries of a good education or leisurely travel or a "sophisticated" urban environment, and are generally poor. Aren't you a liberal? Aren't the poorer, disadvantaged classes the people you purportedly champion? At any rate, aren't stereotypes and epithets something you try to avoid, and you hate hearing from others?

I SPIT on intellectual snobs. Especially liberal ones--they are the worst hypocrites of all. My Granddaddy in Virginia was what you'd call a redneck, beeyatch. At least he never pretended to be anything he wasn't, either.

I would rather you not utter that term here again, thank you.
 
Re-read my post.
Hunting deers with rifles is for pussies because deers are so stupid, if your a good hunter you can get a deer within bow range.
And my uncle can shoot his compound bow with great accuracy at 150yards.
 
Oh well then, i love deer meat. make "Bambi Burgers" ;)
Deer meat is healthy. 0 fat or cholesteral.
Ducks hmmmmmm i'm not to wild about ducks.
 
Almost scared about wading in here, but I will. :)

I go hunting for my food all the time. Head on over to the meat section and get myself a nice London Broil or a top round roast beef or something. Hey, and I don't have to sit out in the cold or wear orange to the store so some person doesn't shoot me either.

I'll throw my lot in with those who can abide by people who hunt and then use the carcass for food or some other use. I'd be a hypocrite otherwise. My meat that I buy was killed in a slaughterhouse which, as allan pointed out, is not the most pleasant thing. Read the book Toxin by Robin Cook if you want to read a story about the true goriness of some slaughterhouses. Some friends of mine are hunters, and I enjoy it when they invite me over to enjoy some venison. Rather tasty when it marinated for a while and grilled with some onions. My view is that it saves me (and them for that matter) from hunting at the local Stop & Shop when we partake, so it evens out.

I can also appreciate the culling of some of the overpopulation associated with hunted (and hopefully eaten) animals. I'm from the Northeast US, and the deer are just everywhere.

We call them rats on stilts.

The fact of the matter is that I, personally, could never purposely kill an animal. I suppose I could if it meant starving otherwise, but it's just not in my makeup. I'll totally admit that I put the slaughterhouses out of my mind when I enjoy a good steak (Mmmmm.....steaaaaaak) I guess much the same way I'll put the hunting out of my mind while eating venison (Mmmmm....venison), but when I do think about these situations I can at least have the realization that it's an animal hunting and killing another for food and happens all the time on the Discovery Channel.

Perhaps it's my "couldn't kill 'em" state of mind that causes me to think this, but I just can't abide by sport killing of animals.

To my mind and mode of thinking, this is taking a life for one's own entertainment. It bothers me that some think it fun or exciting to slay a living creature that has done nothing to warrant that treatment. I replied in kind in the bullfighting thread in this forum, and to this extent fox hunting seems abhorrent to me and I do hope someone in the UK who has some influence (perhaps a royal or two...) will do something to help end this tradition.

My opinion, take it or leave it.
 
"I notice many of the hunters eat their kills.

"DAMN IT! This thread is about hunting purely for sport and throwing the dead body away."

I guess our definitions differ, then. I've always thought of hunting as sport, even if you eat the meat. It's a challenge getting the meat, after all.

Obviously in primitive cultures way back (and in some VERY poor rural areas today), people hunted to survive, now mainly they hunt as an alternative CHOICE to buying farm products. Why? Mainly for the challenge, and to get out into the "great outdoors". Therefore it can be considered a sport AND a source of food, both. Just like fishing....

I thought that's what you meant--hunting when you don't HAVE to.
 
I regret you feel that way, sonorakitch

But I was under the impression that this was a forum,
Not a popularity contest…

As for my word usage, have you ever seen any
Cursing or swearing in my posts?

I’m not denying you anything,
It’s you that’s denying me free speech.

I am only stating my opinion,
That hunting without productive reason is wrong,
If you can’t take that concept, too bad.

And for your information, I don’t eat steaks, big, or otherwise.
 
Poor Allan.

Obviously you were too angry to read or understand my posts.

Your comments were so flawed and utterly off the mark I had to laugh.

And kindly curb your abusive language when addressing me.
I do not swear and curse when posting, so return the favour.

Now for starters, no, I don’t eat red meat. But yes,
I am an offender In that I eat eggs and some processed fish pates.
I never eat burgers or beef…
But in big stores here in the UK the packaging is usually marked to show
The produce was from an organic farm, etc.

Yes, people here are against cruel farming techniques too, Amazing, eh?

And you are no different from me, even though you lamely try to justify…

“I'll admit I eat beef myself occasionally and other farm animals more often, but I can see a bit more to admire in someone who actually is participating in the well-being of wild creatures, is lobbying to preserve wild habitats (so he can continue hunting of course, but who cares about the motive if the wilds ARE being preserved), and who would rather take an animal on fairer terms than making their prey live in their own sh*t in feedlots, and herding them into assembly-line slaughterhouses....”

This suspect reasoning proves you are using double standards, you fail on this count!

But don’t be hard on yourself, ally-boy. Products using animal remains
Are everywhere (shoes, glue, sweets and a myriad other items).
I think everyone is guilty to some extent of utilising dead animals,
It’s just you are more guilty than me.

Anyway my argument is against useless hunting for sport, not for your
Children’s survival, does this make me a hippy?
What is a fox going to do to men on horses with rifles?
Answer that and stay macho.

On to your next tirade, a totally unconnected babble about how I am some upper Class liberal, with no clue about poverty etc.

One thing, Allan.
Don’t profile me; don’t dare even presume to know me. Your comments here are utter nonsense where I’m concerned;

“And Drekken forgave you for using the term "redneck", but I will not. Who do you think YOU are, looking down on people who farm, people who may have coarser hands than you, may not have had the luxuries of a good education or leisurely travel or a "sophisticated" urban environment, and are generally poor. Aren't you a liberal? Aren't the poorer, disadvantaged classes the people you purportedly champion? At any rate, aren't stereotypes and epithets something you try to avoid, and you hate hearing from others?”

I apologised to Drekken, When did I refer to you in this manner?

I come from one of the poorest countries in Europe, Scotland.
My family and me are proudly working class. Born and bred.
I come from a poor but decent line of soldiers and labourers.
My fore-fathers worked themselves to an early grave building boats in the
Shipyards and Fighting in two world wars!

In fact on D-day 1944, my Great Uncle won a decoration for saving one of your
Wounded Soldier boys under machine gun fire…

So don’t YOU talk to me about working class, bucko, you don’t have a clue.

It illustrates to me your lack of knowledge about the world when you can fire
such self-righteous gibberish around when you don’t even know the person.
I used to have respect for your postings, but that no longer exists.

“I SPIT on intellectual snobs. Especially liberal ones--they are the worst hypocrites of all. My Granddaddy in Virginia was what you'd call a redneck, beeyatch. At least he never pretended to be anything he wasn't, either.”

Allan, go spit on yourself, everything you have said so far is contemptible
And totally in error. Next time you decide to launch an unprovoked attack
On a fellow poster, get your facts straight and switch off the jingoism.
Just because I can string two words together doesn’t make me an intellectual.
I learned to read and write, does that offend you too?

Yes, ally-boy, Snobs are the worst hypocrites of all,
And you are displaying those exact traits right now.

I am in no doubt your Grandfather was a good man,
A pity he didn’t teach you some manners.

And when you choose to insult me, please do so in English;
Not in inane Americanisms like “beeyatch”. Get a grip!

(Now the next bit, I want you to read carefully,
Allan, if you can’t be bothered, then do not post to me again,
if there is anything you do not understand, ask someone to read it to you…
Because I will not be spending any more time on this flawed and
Biased thread…a pointless exercise when faced with such abuse.)

I remain staunchly defiant to any browbeating or fascistic put-downs,
I have seen no post that turn me from my views…

My official stance is still that you must eat to survive, bottom line.
Some people have to hunt to that, why the hell would I oppose this?
I must eat what I can get, but I don’t have to hunt a loaf of bread in the local Asda super store!
And if I was in the wilderness, well that’s different…

I have no time for hunting with the end result of just having the head
Of some pitiful dead, animal on your wall.

As FearlessLeader2 Intelligently pointed out;
Hunting anything for sport is basically unfair unless the odds are even.

What I am against is the pointless eradication of the wildlife and wanton cruelty done in the name of any non-productive “sport”.

The way of life in the USA is obviously different to the UK.
I concede that you have different social requirements where you live.
Maybe you have to hunt, but please understand there are different social
Structures on this planet other than the upbringing you are so proud of.

Just because I want to enjoy my surroundings,
Do have to be demonised and branded a rabid radical liberal?

I in turn, SPIT on that assumption!
 
What about varment hunting? You know- like prarie dogs. No food value, a step above rats, they do quit a bit of damage since we have almost exterminated all there natural preditors.
 
CurtSibling,

I also concur this is not a popularity contest; it is a forum used to share ideas and opinions, and do so in a mature an reasonable manner. My citations of your many phrases, such as referring hunters as:

"Except redneck mud-kickers..."
"For you blood-thirsty gun-freaks, "
"Luckily here in the UK, lunatics with guns tend to be shot by police snipers..." (referring to Drekken on page 3)
"smacking of nazism. "
"take your outmoded perception back to the
log cabin you came from. "

I think it is obvious, sir, that you have lowered yourself from a respected poster with intelligence to merely another ignorant, hurtful person. And while this is not a popularity contest, your behavior on this board is directly related to your crediblity. And for that reason, I would agree that you haven't used foul language, but your intentions have been foul indeed.

I seek not to destroy your right of free speech, and I will not, nor have not, requested you edit your posts to bring the hatefulness down; I do feel your speech puts you in your place however.

I can understand your position seeing that you avoid eating red meat. But I did recall a very interesting reversal of words with your following:

"I eat meat incidentally; I just know my power as a consumer.
My choices dictate what the hypermarket stocks on the shelves… "

I was under the impression, that due to this statement, you ate meat. Simple.

I am just suggesting you learn to debate a topic you are obviously passionate about in a more civil manner. If you would like to continue the discussion about hunting and its rights and wrongs, than please do so. I always enjoy a good debate! :)

~Chris
 
I hunt for sport, but i'll still eat it also
 
"I also concur this is not a popularity contest; it is a forum used to share ideas and opinions, and do so in a mature an reasonable manner. "

Sonorakitch,
Your points are noted for future reference.
And I retract any offensive statements to yourself and Drekken.

But until Allan learns some decorum, I will not back down from him.

My mode of speech may have became colourful at times,
Nut this is because I was irritated at the attitudes of some posters.

Just because I had a dissenting view from the pro-sport hunting majority,
I am shot down and generally written of as some sort of idiot liberal.

I find it completely unacceptable.

And what it says about a nation that is vaunted for it’s freedom of speech
Is shocking.

I think there are other posters here too that should learn to debate rationally.
 
On the points of culling, and varmint removal:

Culling:
Every year, the US sells licenses to hunt various animals whose populations need to be controlled due to the past elimination of predators from the regions those animals populate. This is a vitally neccessary act, as without the human hunters taking the place of animal predation that no longer exists, those prey animals would overpopulate, denude the local flora, and cause mass starvations of not only their own species, but other animals that live in those areas as well. The number of licenses sold is carefully calculated based on population size and expected food supply, and poaching is a punishable offense. The hunted populations are in no danger of extinction as a result of licensed hunting.
It is all well and good to say that we should not have gotten rid of the natural predators, but that is not the reality of the situation. The reality is, those predators are gone, and something needs to take their place. Efforts are underway to introduce predators to areas where they have been hunted out, but these efforts will never restore the ecological balance of those areas, while man lives in them. Our herds and children must be safe, and no one is going to choose wolves et al over cows and children.

Varmints:
Gophers, rats, opossums, raccoons and the like are a constant pest, and many pose threats to health and agriculture as well. While many varmints are not predators per se, they 'predate' upon valuable crops, making them just as dangerous as wolves, albeit to a much different demographic group (carrots instead of kids, asparagus instead of cattle). With their natural predators gone, at the hands of humans, it is up to us to become their new predators. The simple fact is, we are the fittest, and we survived.

Observations:
In the US, there are two groups lobbying Congress on behalf of the environment: groups which, in addition to desiring strong pollution controls, are opposed to all hunting, trapping, and fishing, and hunting groups which also desire pollution controls, who are also lobbying to protect the environments that the animals they hunt live in. The two best examples are GreenPeace for the first group, and Ducks Unlimited for the second.
GreenPeace raises money, buys ships, and rams them into tuna boats and pesters naval vessels, and generally makes a nuisance of themselves.
Ducks Unlimited raises money, buys wetlands, and then sits on the deeds and does not a damn thing with the land except let hunters, fishers, and trappers exercise their licenses. We already know that licensed hunting is good for the environment, so it is obvious that DU is doing a very positive thing for the environment.
Both groups also raise holy hell over things like drilling for oil or mining in wildlife preserves.

Conclusions:
The sun has set upon the wolf and the lion. The day of man has dawned. Let all the beasts of the earth tremble at his approach. On the bright side, given that man has shouldered this new burden responsibly, human hunters will probably not trigger a global apocalypse. That will come from boy bands. :lol:
 
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