Ank13 - Monty goes into Space

[Cuivienen]

Only if we stack on Sistine and Bach's and Copernicus's and Newton's and Shakespeare's (and I doubt that we can pick up all of those).

 

[Tomoyo]

Let's aim for Cop's, Shake's, and Newton's then.

 

[microbe]

Great Library will not give you much benefit at Monarch level. You still need to do research yourself otherwise it'll be too slow. You still need to beeline for Astronomy as you don't want AI to cascade to Copernicus so you need to control the prebuild presicely. If you lose that (or Newton) you'll lose the game. Remember GL has almost the highest culture (next to Shakespear) which you definitely want to avoid.

 

[Cuivienen]

True, true, I concede the point. No Great Library.

 

[Tomoyo]

I concede the point.

I think this might be the first time this has been said on CFC.

 

[bed_head7]

You may concede the point, but I am not sure that I do. I started a prebuild because I thought I remembered it being mentioned before in this thread. I'll go back and check for the post, I guess. I am not a particular fan of it, but I have never done OCC so I didn't really know what is necessary to prosper beyond Colossus and the science wonders. I do know 20k, and building Colossus, Great Library, Copernicus and Newton's will not endanger us culturally. We should have the ship off the ground before having those four wonders, though high culture they may be, will trigger a 20k victory. Since many of the points microbe made apply to Conquests, I am not sure that it should be followed to the letter. The tech situation in every game is different, and if we need to put max research into getting Education and Astronomy on our own, we can make that decision when we need to. Thinking about it more, I would like to suggest switching to granary and then prebuilding for the Great Library.

 

[microbe]

Since many of the points microbe made apply to Conquests

This is very true. I don't quite remember how vanilla tech pace looks like, and I think it is faster than Conquests since you can trade contacts very early on. So take my advice as a grain of salt.

 

[Ankka]

Man, you guys post a lot when I'm sleeping!


Seriously, looks like you three did a good job in getting the game going... and slowing our two closest (?) enemies.

The risk sure is if we get the GLib that we'll get a cultural victory... on the other hand, if we don't take Bach's and Sistine's, we'll get about 12 to 18 cpt less...

The Great Lighthouse will propably be good... and the Colossus for the extra commerce. Or do we have it already?


Tomoyo
Cuivienen
bed_head7
Formula51 - UP!
Ankka - on deck

REMEMBER: 24h to post a "got it", total 48 to post turnlog and save.



Well... We won't need the GLib if we can keep up in techs otherwise... but can we take the risk?

 

[Tomoyo]

I think we already have the Colossus.

 

[Ankka]

So... my point was that we should only build the wonders we really need. Like Colossus is a must for commerce. Cop's and Newtons too. And ToE would be nice to get. And perhaps Smiths... although it isn't as powerful as in Civ 2..

We won't need Shakespeare's propably, as it isn't as powerful as in C3C > we'll still need a hospital..

 

[Cuivienen]

But the 8 content citizens from Shakespeare's means that we won't ever need Lux > 10% even once the city gets quite large. I think that Shakespeare's should be our priority after Newton's (rather than Smith's).

 

[bed_head7]

Okay, a couple lists of wonders.

"Musts":
Colossus
Newton's
Copernicus'
ToE

Helpful:
Great Library
Great Lighthouse
Smith's
Shakespeare's

Unneccesary:
Everything else

Excuse me if I missed a wonder. The point is, any wonder I may have forgotten isn't one of the big cultural ones. Even building all the musts and helpful wonders, we are not in danger of a cultural victory until late 1900s I would guess, depending on how quickly we build them. If that starts to happen, we can disband the Cathedral and Temple we will surely have which should slow things down a bit. But we should not make it more difficult on ourselves to keep up in techs by not building the Great Library because of cultural concerns. If we want to build it, we should not worry about it.

 

[microbe]

You forgot UN and SETI, and I suspect you want Hanging Gardens too.

 

[Tomoyo]

I would put Shakespeare's in the "Helpful" part. ToE should go in the "Must" part, because it gives us two techs that we won't have to research.

 

[Formula51]

Thanks for the discussion, got it, and will hopefully post tonight. Keep on prebuilding for the GLight, right?

 

[bed_head7]

Alright, I edited the lists. If the lists are like this, then we need to choose between Shakespeare's and the Great Library, as it would be very difficult to have both and stay under 20k. Great Library generally produces more over the course of the game, unless we go straight for Shakespeare's, which I do not think we will be doing. So which is more valuable? I ignored the modern wonders on my list, because they typically do not make more than a few turn difference in the date 20k is reached.

If we do decide to bypass the Great Library, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to build the Hanging Gardens as well. I just am not sure that the money saved by lower luxury for the MA with HG is more than we would save from not having to research. Plus, if we are going to worry about cascades and such, getting Copernicus, Newton's, and Shakespeare's could prove a bit challenging, depending on how much control we have on research.

 

[Formula51]

I vote for bypassing the GLib, as the Monarch AI researches at a glacial pace, and shakes is definately more useful.

EDIT: never mind, Shakes doesn't have a hospital effect in vanilla civ3, right?

 

[Ankka]

Shake's isn't so important without the hospital effect... but still very useful.

IMHO we should keep building the prebuild and choose between the GLib and the HG later... depends a lot on the AI tech pace, although it is awfully low on Monarch....

 

[Formula51]

It'd be prudent to go for the HG, as the tech pace will not be very fast.

 

[soul_warrior]

looks nice.
will lurk