Anno Domini - a full mod from R8XFT

[The Last Conformist]

It's still a shame they didn't pick Hatschepsut.

 

[mitsho]

She (Hatshepsut) still can be the Leader of Saba: The Queen of Saba.
[in this mod].

mfG mitsho

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

She (Hatshepsut) still can be the Leader of Saba: The Queen of Saba.
[in this mod].

mfG mitsho

I'm using the Fireaxis Arab leaderhead as the Saba leader.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Fireaxis wanted to make sure there were some female leaders in the mix. Cleopatra is argueably the most known female leader of ancient times to a mixed, average audience. Please note that I'm talking about most known leader, not best or most suitable.

Thats the thing though, sometimes the best known isn't the best if you know what I mean. Having a less well known character in charge of a country is a good way of educating people.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Thats the thing though, sometimes the best known isn't the best if you know what I mean. Having a less well known character in charge of a country is a good way of educating people.

I don't feel the need to educate anyone . The game is meant to be fun .

 

[Goldflash]

You should SO make the Goldflash Leaderhead to be the LEader of Egypt. I am SO much cooler the Cleopatra. I have a Blanket. With Farm Animals on it. And I win any argument.

 

[onedreamer]

*remember- cleopatra herself is from th ePtolomaic dynasty of egyptian rukers, who were greeks; durign thier ruke egypt was a firmlly med sea state, that combined bpth classic egyptian, and middle easter elemts- as well as a very heavy shadeing of Greek culture, most obvious in the city of Alexandria

and ? Cleopatra was still Egyptian. Her family ruled there for 300 years. How much do people think someone should live in a country before becoming part of it ? It's funny that all these remarks come from "americans". So nationalist, yet hardly 50% of the people of USA can say their family has lived there for 300 years.

Egypt had Greek influence during the Ptolemaic dynasty ? Again, and ? According to the legend Rome was founded by a troian descendant. And Rome had definitely greek influences throughout its history. Let's see the family of C.G. Caesar claimed to be descendant from Romulus. Romulus is a descendant of Aenea... Does this mean that Caesar is not a suitable leader for Rome ?

Firaxis simply picked famous leader with readable names. You know, people tends to identify themselves with these leaders when they play. And for this purpouse Cleopatra is WAY better than Hatshepsut, because most people knows her story and because they can read her friggin' name !
After all this is a game and not a History thesis.

 

[mitsho]

Well, Hatshepsut isn't that unknown. There are I-don't-know-how-many-but-still-many people/tourists going to Luxor every year. And some will still remember Luxor for a terrorist attack some years ago!

But I agree, Cleo is more famous and thus preferable than Hatshepsut.

mfG mitsho

 

[Hrafnkell]

and ? Cleopatra was still Egyptian. Her family ruled there for 300 years. How much do people think someone should live in a country before becoming part of it ? It's funny that all these remarks come from "americans". So nationalist, yet hardly 50% of the people of USA can say their family has lived there for 300 years.

First of all, who you calling at Nationalist? I'm not. Nationalism is the root of more evils than I can count, so excuse me from your broadly painted canvas, please.

The model you create is too simplistic. Other then the differences between Greek and Macedonian, I am in agreement with Xen on this. The fact is, Alexandria was NOT Egypt. It was not even considered to be IN Egypt. Residents of Alexander spoke of going "to" Egypt when they travelled, and vice versa. Alexandria was a Greek city on the coast of an Egyptian hinterland. Americans, on the other hand, as is known to those of us who actually live here, live as Americans in an American land amid American culture, not separated from it as Alexandria was from Egypt.

That said, I apologize to you, R8FXT, for prolonging the battle for Egypt. I agree that Cleopatra is a good leaderhead for Egypt. After all, she was not even the first Cleopatra; there had been six before her and she reigned for longer than several other people chosen by Firaxes (and others) to be the leaderhead for their race. And it should be fun. Realism without fun in a game is pointless. It is, after all, a game.

 

[onedreamer]

I called the americans nationalist, I'm not going to count them one by one, excuse me for the generalization, it's a matter of majority. If you don't feel part of such group then you shouldn't feel involved...
My "model" (if we can call it such) is not too simplicistic. It's simplicistic and childish stating that Cleopatra was greek or other statements close to this, like stating that she lived in a separate culture etc.
You can have your opinion and I will still sleep fine at night, just remember that when you have an opinion, you should write and not just state that Cleo was a greek... a good IMO here and there won't hurt your ego too much and will help a lot people who maybe don't know of this stuff and don't have any opinion to form their own and not just take yours as a matter of fact.

 

[The Last Conformist]

My "model" (if we can call it such) is not too simplicistic. It's simplicistic and childish stating that Cleopatra was greek or other statements close to this, like stating that she lived in a separate culture etc.

Simplistic or not, it's true. The ruling stratum of the Ptolemaean kingdom was separated from the Egyptian majority of their subjects by differences of culture, language, and ethnic identity.

Incidenally, that's a quite unremarkable situation from an historical perspective.

 

[Hrafnkell]

Onedreamer, since when is it childish to state a historical fact? To tell the truth? Point me to a source that states that Cleopatra was Egyptian. You won't find any.

For the record, I did not state that Cleopatra was Greek but Macedonian but I'm willing to agree to Greek culture if not blood. Either way, as Xen and TLC said, Cleopatra was not Egyptian.

And my ego is hardly bruised, but thank you for your kind concern on my behalf. As for people not knowing their stuff, I graduated summa cum laude with degrees in history and philosophy, and I've noticed a high degree of knowledge among the people on this forum and even when we disagree, I respect them.

 

[Olaf_The_Great]

are all these leaderheads complete if so can you give us the zip.And for the greek ones i remember you made those...can you give us the link

 

[Xen]

and ? Cleopatra was still Egyptian. Her family ruled there for 300 years. How much do people think someone should live in a country before becoming part of it ? It's funny that all these remarks come from "americans". So nationalist, yet hardly 50% of the people of USA can say their family has lived there for 300 years.

I consider myself Italian and English, and the nation of america the nation I reside in, and where my immediate loyalty lays- but that dose not, nor ever will mean I am a native american, the same as ti will neve rmean cleopatra was an egyptian

Egypt had Greek influence during the Ptolemaic dynasty ? Again, and ? According to the legend Rome was founded by a troian descendant. And Rome had definitely greek influences throughout its history. Let's see the family of C.G. Caesar claimed to be descendant from Romulus. Romulus is a descendant of Aenea... Does this mean that Caesar is not a suitable leader for Rome ?

A)no- thie ris a differenc ebetween th eorings of a people.a nd orgins of the person who rule a people; as it is, thier are more then enough reasons not to have Caesar as Romes leaderhead.

B)its not; The Julii familly CAN be traced back to soem fo the earliest foundering familles of Rome, as far back as data can be assured to; but the ledgend of aneas ssem sot be based on the etruscan story of thier own orginins from anataolia, which is substantiated by thie rlanguage (the closest relitive appears to be in northern anatolia), and the greek historic recording fo what the orgins fo the etruscans were.

C)you cant change history; celopatra was a Greek, or if you want to be asinine for accruacy, a macedonian, she was not an Egyptian, nor is even qualified to be a grea tleader, unless beign a whore to power counts.

 

[Master Kodama]

When it comes right down to it, the argument against Cleopatra being the leader of Egypt is valid because she was a member of a foreign-originating ruling group who were ethnically and culturally dissimilar from Egypt itself. This has happened in many places at many times in the past, such as in China, so the validity of the claim is somewhat weakened in light of that fact, but still stands if you take the whole foreign-origin-ruling-class as overwhelmingly significant.

HOWEVER, unless I am very much mistaken, Cleopatra did lead Egypt, making her a valid choice for leader of Egypt in civ.

That's not my opinion, so much as a fact. Hitler was Austrian; Napoleon was essentially Italian, was he not? So what? They both ruled Germany and France, respectively. "Arnold, the Govenator" isn't Calfornian, he's not even American*, but like it or hate it he's the governor of the state of my birth.

Personally, if I was to pick a leader for Egypt in civ, I wouldn't pick Cleopatra. But that's just a personal preference. Maybe my preference is based on her status as a member of an "outside" Hellenistic ruling class, maybe it's because I don't think she was a good leader. Hell, maybe it's because I'm actually several thousand years old and I met her once and didn't find her a very friendly person, or her conversation bored me. Whatever my reasons, I won't try to back them up with various claims to her invalidity, because it's all really just a matter of preference and nobody is going to be definitively right or wrong.

*= whatever AMERICAN means. Yeesh, I'm not even gonna get into that argument.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I love how you did Cleopatra, unlike the Firaxis leaderhead, she looks genuinely Egyptian in all eras, and the backgrounds....the backgrounds are MUCH better than the Firaxis ones as well...all toghether, I give the Cleopatra leaderhead 5 out of 5 stars..it doesn't get much better than this!

 

[Plotinus]

R8XFT, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on Nuimateped. I've just downloaded the current version of him from your Ancient Leaderheads page and he is splendid. But the purpose I'm putting him to really needs slightly darker skin, and I notice that earlier in the thread you were torn between having him as he is and making him darker. I think the "darker" shot you gave there was *too* dark and looked a little odd, since his features aren't quite "African" enough to match such dark skin tones. A version halfway between as he is and that shot might hit the mark (and coincidentally make him about right for my purposes too...). What do you reckon?

 

[Master Kodama]

R8XFT, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on Nuimateped. I've just downloaded the current version of him from your Ancient Leaderheads page and he is splendid. But the purpose I'm putting him to really needs slightly darker skin, and I notice that earlier in the thread you were torn between having him as he is and making him darker. I think the "darker" shot you gave there was *too* dark and looked a little odd, since his features aren't quite "African" enough to match such dark skin tones. A version halfway between as he is and that shot might hit the mark (and coincidentally make him about right for my purposes too...). What do you reckon?

Funny, I recommended the exact same thing... and I still do.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

He will be darker and with a different background. It's just that I had that version available and nine other leaderheads....so it was a choice of putting that version of him in the leaderhead pack or not. I thought most people would like to have a copy rather than not, given the choice .