Anno Domini II discussion thread

[Blue Monkey]

Pax Romana sounds like a good suggestion; though I'm a bit concerned it's essentially Roman. Pax Mundi?

Any other suggestions would be warmly welcomed .

Pax Mundi is close to the Indian concept of chakravarta - a universal emperor. & in the same ballpark as the "mandate of heaven" concept from Asia. Which is the long way 'round the barn to say it's a good choice, imho.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Pax Mundi is close to the Indian concept of chakravarta - a universal emperor. & in the same ballpark as the "mandate of heaven" concept from Asia. Which is the long way 'round the barn to say it's a good choice, imho.

I like "Mandate of Heaven"....

 

[Blue Monkey]

I like "Mandate of Heaven"....

Well since the Roman Emperors claimed divinity & the chakravartin was seen as a savior bringing universal peace it would probably work for all the culture groups.

 

[Takhisis]

Pax Imperialis, as a consequence of being elected as Emperor? Really, being chosen as the first Pope and spiritual overlord would be the most important one IMHO, although you'd have to engineer Christianity into this as a religion somehow… maybe a special government that allows you to build a Holy See (or maybe an ecumenic Council) wonder?

 

[Virote_Considon]

Such centralized Christianity would only happen a few hundred years later, though...

 

[Takhisis]

But there were Popes and bishops and stuff from the 1st century onwards…

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Good suggestions, Takhisis - though I'm going with "Mandate of Heaven" as it's much more universal, as Blue Monkey pointed out. I've got a range of different cultures, including Indian and Chinese so it needs something more cosmopolitan. Thanks again for your suggestions .

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

First off, the website is now up and running - the link is in my signature.

Also, a friend of mine, Elle, who is half-chinese has offered to do a new silk road victory video for me. She's going to say, "Congratulations! Your journey across the silk road is complete. You have won a trade victory!" Elle can speak Chinese as well and has suggested that she says it in Chinese with me editing in subtitles to translate at the bottom. Any thoughts?

I've had an idea. As you may know, there are 24 civilizations in Anno Domini II - which is going to stay the same...sort of. I was thinking of having the other seven slots dedicated to non-player city states/single city civs, each with their own purpose. None of these can build settlers. Additionally, I was thinking of making a dummy tech that the player civs could have but the non-player civs didn't have in order to make them only be able to build certain things (and to make sure they did build them and not the regular stuff) Here's some ideas I'd thought of:

Sarmatians. The Saramatians represent that irritating war-mongering neighbour next door. They have three units - a spearman, a swordsman (utahjazz7 did an excellent one which could be used) and cavalry. The thing is, they can build these units from the start; they have stats comparable with 2nd era units, which makes them very difficult at the beginning, but over time, you'll be able to overcome them. Their swordsmen will not require any upkeep to add insult to injury.

Thebes. Can only build hoplites (but ones that are on a par with 2nd era units), but can build a wonder which auto-produces the sacred band of Thebes (which do not require any upkeep). I could make this a costly wonder which they'd probably build once they couldn't build any more hoplites without going into the red. Capture the city and you get the sacred band of Thebes until the discovery of the Republic at the end of era two.

Hittites. Early chariot warfare comes to a head with the Hittites invading with 2nd era style chariots (the three-man chariot in the epic game), which do not require upkeep. They can defend their city, but with A1D3M1 units, which are beatable at the middle-end of era one, when player civs discover bronze working.

Babylon. Have defensive units which are A1D3M1, but can build the Hanging Gardens (+3 happy in Babylon, +1 happy in all other cities) and Walls of Babylon (walls in all cities), so capturing Babylon - and these wonders - is a boon.

Sea people: Ships are available to the sea people straight away; they will be able to cross seas and oceans without danger. They have two units (made by utahjazz7 a few years back) - a swordsman and a spearman comparable with bronze age units - so a nightmare to begin with, but subduable by mid-end of era one.

Lydia: Have a wonder to place a free bazaar in every city. Capture Lydia, then you get the wonder. They have one unit, a A1D3M1 defensive soldier.

Ephesus: Cultural city, which can build a few things, such as the library of Celsus and a thriving agora. This is defended by their only unit, the Ephesian hoplite; no real attack value, but in defence should last until era three: A1D6M1.

So what do you think? Will this add to the mix in a positive way?

With them being non-player civilizations, will they turn up in every game?

 

[MeteorPunch]

Are you planning to use random maps or custom? I'm planning on using minor/city-state civs too, and this affects how I can answer.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Are you planning to use random maps or custom? I'm planning on using minor/city-state civs too, and this affects how I can answer.

It's a random map mod .

 

[MeteorPunch]

Okay here's my tips so far. Most of this is probably common sense or something you have thought of as well, but anyway...

1. Because of the limited eras of you mod, I think you can get away with letting them use the standard tech tree and only using 2-4 land units, and 1-2 sea units. You could always use more, but I think this is a good minimum.

2. Make their units not require resources.

3. You can use custom player data to make them unselectable for the human at the civ selection screen, yet still exist as an AI controlled opponent in-game. However this might cause playing aid mods such as Civ-Assist and MapStat to not work, but I'm not completely sure about this (need to test again). On the other hand, someone might want to play as a single city civ for the challenge.

4. I like the idea of them having one big, strong city, so consider giving the minor civs their own little "super building" (gained through the "minor civs tech" you mentioned) that allows them to compete a little bit by increasing production, defense, science, gold, or whatever is appropriate. Give it culture per turn if you want it to be destroyed on capture, or "Allows city size 2," if you want it to have a good chance at being intact when the city is captured.

5. Something I'm considering is having the mutual protection pacts and military alliances only be attainable through diplomacy with minor civs. This way you might want a few important little allies, rather than simply gunning to take over their nice cities. Again, gained through, "minor civs tech."

6. I should have asked how many civs will be in a single game as well. If you're doing a preplaced map, there's no problems, however my problem has been that on random continent maps, sometimes a civ will start surrounded by minor civs (giving them too much room), and the other major civs are near each other as well (making them relatively scrunched together). It's not as much as an issue on pangaea or archipelago maps, but bothersome on continents. Messing with the ratios of major to minor civs in a game might help some.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Thanks for the comments. I hadn't thought about resources for units, but I guess it makes sense to make them unnecessary. I was sticking with the said units to ensure that the civ lasted roughly the time they did historically. If, for example, I gave Ephesus a weaker spearman to start with, it might fall earlier than I was wanting.

There are 24 major civs in the mod. That will not change.

 

[Takhisis]

Also, a friend of mine, Elle, who is half-chinese has offered to do a new silk road victory video for me. She's going to say, "Congratulations! Your journey across the silk road is complete. You have won a trade victory!" Elle can speak Chinese as well and has suggested that she says it in Chinese with me editing in subtitles to translate at the bottom. Any thoughts?

Have it checked just in case she plays a prank on you and says something like 'this scenario is crap, how come it took you so long?' or something.

Seriously, why Chinese? I mean, the foreign touch can be nice, but…

Sea people: Ships are available to the sea people straight away; they will be able to cross seas and oceans without danger. They have two units (made by utahjazz7 a few years back) - a swordsman and a spearman comparable with bronze age units - so a nightmare to begin with, but subduable by mid-end of era one.

Not quite historical as humans have been able to ride boats for far longer than that, but, well… I guess it has to be playable, since we can't scale it down to an individual curragh.

 

[Balthasar]

It is a true shame that we can't change the names of our leaderheads from era to era. It would sure make it easier to properly depict all of these Civs in their proper contexts.

For instance, Babylon (Median Empire) was quite the power under Nebuchadnezzar, but that empire fell to Cyrus and the Persians (Achaemenid Empire) in 550 BCE, then to Alexander and his generals (Seleucid empire) in 330 BCE, then to the Parthians (Parthian Empire) in 60 BCE, then to the Sassanids (Sassanid Empire) which lasted from 226 AD until the rise of Islam in 650 AD, etc., etc.

Spoiler :

My favorite ancient ruler is Queen Musa, who was purportedly a Roman slave girl that had been traded to Phraates IV of Parthia by Tiberius (still a general at the time) in 20 BCE in return for Roman Aquilae that had been lost by Crassus in the Battle of Carrhae. She must have been quite the young concubine for such a trade to be made (those aquilae, or standards, were important enough that their capture and return were noted on coins of the time).

It is, in my mind, unlikely that Phraates, realizing the value that the Romans placed on the Aquilae, would trade them for a mere slave girl, regardless of other pressures that may have brought him to the negotiating table. In the countries of the eastern Mediterranean at that time, there was a tradition of sending one's offspring away to be raised in a rival household; these were not simply hostages, as the Romans would have surely viewed it; they were more on the order of insurance against having one's entire lineage wiped out at once by a coup or attack, and of course protection from attack by a despot whose offspring was being raised in your court. Phraates had by that time already sent one of his own offspring to Rome; he was doubtless alarmed by the fact that Rome hadn't reciprocated. Of course, the Romans would never send a truly valuable "hostage" to live at the Parthian Court; but they might have convinced Phraates that a wife with 'royal' blood would serve the same purpose. My guess is that Musa was actually the (illegitimate) daughter of a prominent Roman: Caesar, Cleopatra, or Marc Anthony, perhaps, delivered on the condition that her true identity be kept secret. Such a trade would certainly account for her unlikely rise to the throne, as well as a possible reason that Rome left Parthia unmolested thereafter - at least until Musa and her still-young son were later deposed and killed in a palace coup in 6 AD. On the other hand, Phraates himself is said to have been the son of a concubine - his insecurity about his low birth is often cited as the reason that he had his 30 brothers and his own father killed shortly after he rose to power - and he could have reasoned that his own queen and heir should have a similar background.

In any case, the true identity of Musa has been lost to history, partly due to the curious fact that scant record actually remains of the Parthian Empire itself - despite it's reputation as a kingdom of civility and scholarship (see Terry Jones' excellent description of the Parthians on video), they left virtually no records of their Empire behind.

So one suggestion would be to emphasize the kingdoms of the first century AD (hence: Anno Domini) when you're deciding on your ancillary leaders: Mithradates or Phraates of Parthia (rather than Persia), Syennisis of Cilicia or Mithradates of Pontus, Asia Minor (rather than Hittites, who come from several centuries earlier), Juba II of Numidia, whose queen was Cleopatra Selene, daughter of Cleopatra VII and Marc Anthony (rather than Carthage). I like your Vercingetorix of Gaul (rather than France).

EDIT: Chinese is quite appropriate for the Silk Road, inasmuch as China is its destination (for everyone except the Chinese). But, of course, it is not the destination that matters, it is the journey.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Have it checked just in case she plays a prank on you and says something like 'this scenario is crap, how come it took you so long?' or something.

Seriously, why Chinese? I mean, the foreign touch can be nice, but…

Elle would never do that. Chinese=end of the silk road .

Not quite historical as humans have been able to ride boats for far longer than that, but, well… I guess it has to be playable, since we can't scale it down to an individual curragh.

Not quite historical to be able to build boats from the start as humans have been able to ride boats for far longer than that ?

 

[Takhisis]

Erm8230; that'¡s what happens when I should be in bed and I stay up at night to post stuff.

Here goes again:
People have been building boats since far longer than this scenario's timeframe. Wouldn't be completely historically accurate to only allow the Sea Peoples to have boats8230; but game balance trumps it, i know. Or something like that8230;

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

No worries!

I've just spoken with Elle and she thinks she should be able to do the video with the three attempts for the silk road victory end-game video by the end of the week. It will be uploaded to youtube, with a voting thread linking to it .

 

[Blue Monkey]

Indian culture group: Harappa, Kushan, Maurya

It would be a shame not to use your Chola queen as one of the Indian LHs. Maybe you could replace Maurya with Chola. The Chola dynasty/empire lasted from 3rd BCE to 11th CE. They were responsible for the Tamil Renaissance & were major trading partners with Rome (via Egypt). Plenty of flexibility as to traits & UUs. Putting them in the mix would better cover the whole range of cultures of the subcontinent.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

It would be a shame not to use your Chola queen as one of the Indian LHs. Maybe you could replace Maurya with Chola. The Chola dynasty/empire lasted from 3rd BCE to 11th CE. They were responsible for the Tamil Renaissance & were major trading partners with Rome (via Egypt). Plenty of flexibility as to traits & UUs. Putting them in the mix would better cover the whole range of cultures of the subcontinent.

I don't really want to be swapping civs around at this stage in the game. However, as it's you, I will add the Chola - but as an addition to the other Indian civs. Whilst I'm at it, I'm going to replace the Corieltauvi with the Veneti, keeping the Gladys leaderhead as Trephina. I was finding that I'd got two extremely similar civs in Brigantia and Corieltauvi, but with the Veneti, I can have a Gallic seafaring civ.

Please though, no more suggestions to changes to civs.

 

[Blue Monkey]

What I was suggesting was just cosmetic - change LH & names - use the same city lists, etc. you had for Chola in the earler AD versions. Use the same civ traits, etc. you had in mind for Maurya. Not at all suggesting you change the overall design for the mod. Purely your choice.