Anno Domini : Tech tree discussion thread

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Each tech will have at least a unit or wonder or building or worker action associated with it - there will be none that are there simply as a bridge to other techs. Some of these are already in the mod as you can see.

Scaffolding is a trait-specific advance which follows Masonry. It is associated with the Seafaring civs and leads to the Great Lighthouse (so only seafaring civs can build that wonder). The other options are as follows:
Agricultural civs: Epic works - leads to Pyramids.
Commerical civs: Commerce - leads to Colossus.
Expansionist civs: Mortar - leads to Mausoleum of Mausollos.
Industrious civs: Fortification - leads to Great Wall.
Militaristic civs: Terracotta - leads to Terracotta Army.
Religious civs: Marble Working - leads to Oracle.
Scientific civs: Bricklaying - leads to Great Library.
All of the wonders above have the same effect as in the epic game, with the exception of the Mausoleum of Mausollos. This gives a free burial mound in each city (the burial mound just adds 1 culture per turn). The terracotta army allows a free barracks in every city. Essentially, the Oracle has the same effect - it's just that there's no temple in the first era, there's a shrine instead, but it does exactly the same as a temple.
*Please note that whilst all civs have two traits, one of the traits is what I call a "primary trait" - it is that trait which decides which advance will become available. For example, the Illyrians are Seafaring and Agricultural, but they can only research Scaffolding and not Epic works. On the Anno Domini website, the primary trait is the one listed first under each civ. Each trait is a primary trait for a maximum of four civs.

Horseback Riding is a flavour tech also. The other options are Camel Riding and Elephant Riding - all leading to units of the same Att, Def, Movement values, but flavoured according to the civ.

Viticulture is for Mediterranean civs only. The other trade options - all of which lead to a luxury becoming available (such as wine with viticulture) and a small wonder dependant on the tech. The options are:
African civs: Salt mining - allows Salt Trade small wonder, which gives +1 trade to all squares already producing trade but must have access to salt.
Asian civs: Silk trading - allows Silk Trader, which requires access to silks. This small wonder gives +50% luxury output.
European civs: Tin mining - allows Tin Mine, which needs access to tin and gives a +25% shield output increase.
Mediterranean civs: Viticulture, leading to Vineyard if wine is accessible. The small wonder provides +2 happy citizens.
Middle-Eastern civs: Weaving, which allows a Weaver's House providing there is access to cloth. A +50% boost to the tax output is given with this small wonder.
I've done these as small wonders because I don't want them to be restricted to having the resource within the city limits but equally feel that one of these buildings is sufficient for each civ.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Deification is a tech exclusive to the Egyptians and leads to the Sphinx, which reduces war weariness in all cities. I'm looking to have mainly religious-based techs here, either specific to an individual civ or to a small group of civs, such as the celtic ones. I think I'll have Judaism for Israel with the Temple of Solomon as the Small Wonder available with it. The Asian civs have Buddhism, leading to a Statue of Buddha small wonder, which gives one happy face in every city.
All the other techs are available to all civs, but I'm thinking about The Republic only being available to Mediterranean civs and having other types of government with slightly different effects being available to the other culture groups. Any thoughts? The government tech could also lead to an improvement/wonder - any thoughts on what that could be?

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Tafl Games is a Saxon-flavoured tech - this will be more-or-less civ specific. I think that Nobility will be a culture-specific tech.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

At the moment, there are no flavour techs in this era. I really wanted there to be at least a trait-flavour tech in there. Perhaps there's room for one after record keeping?

 

[Yoda Power]

Looks nice

You should download the tech icons compiled by me a long time ago, there are a lot of them. Some are very good, though they are old. Mrtn also recently released many tech icons for LOTM.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Looks nice

You should download the tech icons compiled by me a long time ago, there are a lot of them. Some are very good, though they are old. Mrtn also recently released many tech icons for LOTM.

Thanks !
I have downloaded your tech icons - some of them are in the game already.

 

[GRM7584]

Are you going to keep that Courthouse graphic?

 

[Yoda Power]

Yeah that Courthouse graphic is really bad. I would replace it with a gallow or somethnig like that.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Yeah that Courthouse graphic is really bad. I would replace it with a gallow or somethnig like that.

Aye, the courthouse needs to be replaced. However, I don't think gallows is the answer - I'll think of something.
The information on culture-specific trade techs has been updated in the first post .

 

[GRM7584]

A city center or courthouse of some sort makes sense, but it should be more appropriate to the time period, and perhaps culture specific. I'm sure something could be found on CFC.

Also, the salt trade is unique, but perhaps a bit abby-normal compared to the other improvements; maybe you should have both an improvement and a small wonder for each, with the small wonder available in the second or third era. If you need inspiration for flags, I had used the same idea in Colonize, and theres a lot that can be done with that sort of thing.

For the riding techs: will you have 3 different strat. resources? That could be a bit unbalancing, and somewhat silly, as a civ that 'only' had camels available but had 6 horse resources and no camel resources in its territory wouldn't be able to use mounted units. Perhaps make all mounted units available to all civs? Its not too terribly far off, as most of the mediterranean civs at the very least employed mercenaries of appropriate mounts when campaigning in distant lands if their 'native' mounts would perform poorly there.

 

[Hrafnkell]

Really, the courthouse graphic is no more out of place than the Civ granary icon. It would be a stretch to say granaries looked like silo's from time immemorial, or in every culture. It certainly looks nothing like a Roman granary, which looked more like a warehouse. But if, in replacing these icons, others are substituted, they will still be culture-specific if not era-specific. One is no worse than the other.

 

[GRM7584]

I think its more a stretch to say that ancient age african courthouses look like industrial age european courthouses...although I certainly agree about the granaries. Given that this scenario stops before the renaissance, I think its entirely safe to choose culture specific over era specific, if the choice is there and hasn't already been made.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

For the riding techs: will you have 3 different strat. resources? That could be a bit unbalancing, and somewhat silly, as a civ that 'only' had camels available but had 6 horse resources and no camel resources in its territory wouldn't be able to use mounted units. Perhaps make all mounted units available to all civs? Its not too terribly far off, as most of the mediterranean civs at the very least employed mercenaries of appropriate mounts when campaigning in distant lands if their 'native' mounts would perform poorly there.

I'd decided that at least in the ancient age, there would be no strategic resources for camel/horse/elephant riding, but there would be flavour. By era two there will be more advanced horsemen available to all with horses required as a strategic resource.
The courthouse will be replaced by a small wonder which will allow one city to grow to city size 2 without charge, before aqueducts are available in the second era which will allow the same in all cities with a maintainance charge. I was thinking of either "Hammurabi's code of laws" or "The ten commandments" to be that small wonder. The courthouse - or something that has the same effect - will not be available until the start of era two.

 

[Bungus]

Get hunting out of there. What did people do before the researched that advance? Maybe you should make Starving a prereq.
Farming is too late, as most societies were growing there fod by 8000-6000 BC. Many earlier. This should be a begining tech, if at all. Same with archery, I can't remeber when the first bows date back to, but its well intop pre-history. Of course, too early archers a a gameplay foul.
"Hammurabi's Code" should be a great wonder.
Most of the others techs look okay.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Get hunting out of there. What did people do before the researched that advance? Maybe you should make Starving a prereq.
Farming is too late, as most societies were growing there fod by 8000-6000 BC. Many earlier. This should be a begining tech, if at all. Same with archery, I can't remeber when the first bows date back to, but its well intop pre-history. Of course, too early archers a a gameplay foul.
"Hammurabi's Code" should be a great wonder.
Most of the others techs look okay.

Thanks for your comments. Archery in this mod is intended as a more advanced form of bowmanship than the simple bow and arrow. It serves the game well where it is. Farming again suits the mod where I've put it and is intended as a more advanced form of cultivating crops. Perhaps I could have used different terminology for both of these advances, but the effects are the same.
I hear what you're saying about Hunting; the effect in the game is to allow game and furs to be visible on the map and to have a hunter's lodge (maintainance-free granary) in cities with game inside it's city limits. Personally, I like it in the mod, but I do understand what you mean and appreciate the feedback.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I've posted the first draft of the Anno Laxamenti (second era) tech tree. There's still work to be done on it. Please note that at the moment, there are no flavour units in there - I'm doing the tech tree first with generic units, then going back to flavour later on .

Please take a look at my notes in the second post - I could use some suggestions .

 

[Plotinus]

It's all nice and complex! I'm glad the second age manages to avoid the crossed arrows of the first. Personally, I think that it's good not to cross arrows, for two reasons - first, because crossing them looks a bit untidy, and second (and more important) because I think uncrossed arrows make for a better game. It means that you've got more "branches" in the tech tree, which forces the player to decide which general route to take up it. For example, in your second age tree, the player who has just researched Mathematics must decide between Engineering, Astronomy and Administration, each of which leads to a different branch - a real decision, in other words. In the first tech tree, by contrast, Warrior Code is part of the "lower" tech branch, but it has that nasty arrow going up to Logistics, putting it in the "middle" branch, which means that anyone wanting to take that route has to research it as well. I hope all that makes sense - perhaps it's not such a problem really (as, after all, you have to research all the non-optional ones at some point) but I feel that making more serious branches in the tree - with the branches linking back up only later in the era, perhaps - makes for a more interesting game. Naturally, you may completely disagree!

Also, it seems odd to have anyone build the Wailing Wall, because that is basically what still stands of the Temple (which, incidentally, means that Jesus made a prediction that has not come true, according to Mark 13:1-2, which in turn suggests that Jesus really did say this, as no-one would have put such a prediction into his mouth - but still). It would make more sense to have the Jews simply build the Temple.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I try to avoid tech-trees with crossing arrows as well; I felt, though, that Warrior Code had to be a pre-requisite of Logistics. At least I kept it to a minimum and am endeavouring to not have any crossing tech arrows in the other ages.
I understand the point about the Wailing Wall. The Temple of Solomon is downloadable from this forum and is an appropriate Wonder for Israel.
Any other suggestions?

 

[GRM7584]

I'm sure the board could come up with suggestions for a religious wonder for every civ...I can volunteer to scrounge up graphics for any that aren't already available. If you had a list with each civ and what you had planned for them...

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I'm sure the board could come up with suggestions for a religious wonder for every civ...I can volunteer to scrounge up graphics for any that aren't already available. If you had a list with each civ and what you had planned for them...

I wouldn't necessarily need a religious tech/wonder for every civ. I could group some together - for example, all the African civs could go together (or I could keep Nubia separate); Kievan Rus and the Vikings could be another "grouping" as could all the Celtic civs. I haven't got a full idea of what's going to happen with each civ, just a basic direction of what techs are going in which era and which improvements/techs go with them.
Thanks for the offer of doing some graphics (an offer you were kind enough to mention before) .