Another Feminist Movie Crashes and Burns

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Commodore said:
That would seem to indicate that the movies that flop aren't due to some anti-feminist conspiracy or sexism, but rather that they are truly bad movies since this study shows that people generally don't have a problem with the idea of a female lead.
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Nobody said feminist movies fail explicitly due to a conspiracy. The post you're replying to doesn't even cite necessarily feminist movies.
 
Farm Boy said:
I suppose the secret to flying is throwing yourself at the ground and missing.
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Rocket punches in the trailer brought me to the theatre. Surprise swords discouraged me from rewatching.

Rocket punches in trailers are close to cheating. Not nearly the (should be illegal) brainhack of putting both Cate Blanchett AND the Immigrant Song into a trailer. But rocket punches in trailers are on the spectrum of 'might consider criminalizing'
 
Gorbles said:
Nobody said feminist movies fail explicitly due to a conspiracy. The post you're replying to doesn't even cite necessarily feminist movies.
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Tim kinda said it, or at least implied it with his comments about how right wing media reacts to these movies.

Anyway, my comment was more directed at those in the movie industry that do blame failures on some kind of political conspiracy instead of just taking responsibility and admitting they made a bad movie. The most obvious example of this being the cast of the 2016 Ghostbusters literally blaming sexism for why the movie underperformed at the box office. Another example would be the cast and crew of the new Star Wars movies accusing fans of being racist and sexist when they criticize the new characters, especially Rey.
 
Pacific Rim was wasn't even worthy of being called stupid.
 
Commodore said:
Tim kinda said it, or at least implied it with his comments about how right wing media reacts to these movies.

Anyway, my comment was more directed at those in the movie industry that do blame failures on some kind of political conspiracy instead of just taking responsibility and admitting they made a bad movie. The most obvious example of this being the cast of the 2016 Ghostbusters literally blaming sexism for why the movie underperformed at the box office. Another example would be the cast and crew of the new Star Wars movies accusing fans of being racist and sexist when they criticize the new characters, especially Rey.
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The existence of right-wing media panning things they perceive as progressive isn't a conspiracy, though. Are you saying the media doesn't have an impact on what people consume, particularly from demographics that rely on that media for information?

Anyhow, you raise a funny point about Star Wars, considering none of the recent trilogy were failures. None of them were bad movies. All of them were financial successes. Ghostbusters we could probably argue til the heat death of the universe (it's not like the original movies are the pinnacle of film, they're cheesy fun, and that's a lot of why they're good), I personally found it fun.

As for sexism, the harassment on social media of one of its actresses is undeniable (the same goes for various actresses in Star Wars, interestingly enough). This typically doesn't come back on the male actors in either case, though. There is a word for sex-based bias (and prejudice), and that's sexism.
 
Gorbles said:
The existence of right-wing media panning things they perceive as progressive isn't a conspiracy, though. Are you saying the media doesn't have an impact on what people consume, particularly from demographics that rely on that media for information?

Anyhow, you raise a funny point about Star Wars, considering none of the recent trilogy were failures. None of them were bad movies. All of them were financial successes. Ghostbusters we could probably argue til the heat death of the universe (it's not like the original movies are the pinnacle of film, they're cheesy fun, and that's a lot of why they're good), I personally found it fun. And the harassment on social media of one of its actresses is undeniable (the same goes for various actresses in Star Wars, interestingly enough).
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Harassment on social media doesn't translate to box office failure though. So blaming sexism for the financial failure of Ghostbusters is still disingenuous on the part of those who advance such an argument.

As for Star Wars: They weren't failures, and I didn't say they were. The cast and crew though have been unusually sensitive about any criticism of the new characters, claiming the source of the criticism to be racism and sexism. Which is stupid because there are a lot of legitimate criticisms for how the characters are written and dismissing them all as racism or sexism doesn't allow the writers to reflect on those criticisms and do better the next time they write a character.
 
Manfred Belheim said:
Star Wars died when the Phantom Menace came out. Or possibly when they made CGI Jabba.
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The Prequels were an underappreciated masterpiece in terms of their storyline and overarching. I admit, a lot of the esthetics, and certain actors' self-indulgent acting style, left a lot to be desired, but there was a very poignant and relevant message there for their time - at least Episodes II and III, certainly.
 
Please tell me how the race in I did anything to advance the story line or add to the viewers enjoyment?
 
rah said:
Please tell me how the race in I did anything to advance the story line or add to the viewers enjoyment?
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Well it provided the means for Qui'gon to get Anakin off Tatooine. As for viewer enjoyment: my guess is NASCAR was at the height of of its popularity when the movie came out, so they probably figured any NASCAR fans who also liked Star Wars (not sure how much overlap there was between the two fanbases) would get a kick out of it.
 
Gorbles said:
The existence of right-wing media panning things they perceive as progressive isn't a conspiracy, though. Are you saying the media doesn't have an impact on what people consume, particularly from demographics that rely on that media for information?

Anyhow, you raise a funny point about Star Wars, considering none of the recent trilogy were failures. None of them were bad movies. All of them were financial successes. Ghostbusters we could probably argue til the heat death of the universe (it's not like the original movies are the pinnacle of film, they're cheesy fun, and that's a lot of why they're good), I personally found it fun.

As for sexism, the harassment on social media of one of its actresses is undeniable (the same goes for various actresses in Star Wars, interestingly enough). This typically doesn't come back on the male actors in either case, though. There is a word for sex-based bias (and prejudice), and that's sexism.
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Would you please stop referring to EVERYTHING as being either part of the "right-wing," or "progressive left-wing," in unified, lockstep, singular blocs that between them define the ENTIRE socio-political conversation. If you're going to talk about socio-political viewpoints, stances, and factions, then talk about the WHOLE POLIITCAL SPECTRUM, by proper individual stance names and recognized points-of-view, and how they differ from each other, and what they MEAN, and who REALLY, realistically belongs to each, like you actually know what you're talking about - or LEARN what all this means! But, please, by all that is good in the world, stop making these cringeworthy, forced binary, completely uneducated statements as though you somehow spoke with knowledge and authority on the issue, but are only sounding a like a fool!
 
rah said:
Please tell me how the race in I did anything to advance the story line or add to the viewers enjoyment?
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The race was unnecessarily long and drawn out, and somewhat of a distraction because of it. It wasn't nearly, by far, the most central part or aspect of the storyline of the Prequels as a whole.
 
@rah

They needed to run it to get the replacement hyperdrive core, and as for enjoyment it's a speedrace :cool: Your mileage may vary on the latter, and to be fair I am, as admitted previously, a huge fan of the War of the Stars.

Commodore said:
Harassment on social media doesn't translate to box office failure though. So blaming sexism for the financial failure of Ghostbusters is still disingenuous on the part of those who advance such an argument.

As for Star Wars: They weren't failures, and I didn't say they were. The cast and crew though have been unusually sensitive about any criticism of the new characters, claiming the source of the criticism to be racism and sexism. Which is stupid because there are a lot of legitimate criticisms for how the characters are written and dismissing them all as racism or sexism doesn't allow the writers to reflect on those criticisms and do better the next time they write a character.
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Harassment on social media is evidence of underlying sexism (well, not even underlying really) that's present in society. You can definitely claim that that then affects viewing figures. You can't necessarily quantify by how much, but the correlation between "a lot of people felt comfortable being sexist towards a leading actress in a movie" and "these people were probably less inclined to watch this movie because of it having said female lead" is very high. Would there have been an outcry if it had featured four men (again)? There's your answer.

Besides, cast members are allowed opinions. Just as much as you can disbelieve it, that doesn't mean either of you are right or wrong in this case. Like I said, you can't necessary quantify the impact. But likewise, that doesn't make such claims disingenuous. They could be simply and straightforwardly-held beliefs.

To talk a bit more about Star Wars, you included it in the same paragraph of the same post as Ghostbusters, when talking about those involved in the making of the movie who couldn't admit they made a bad movie. You said "another example would be the cast and crew of Star Wars". A mistake, then?

To talk about sexism and racism specifically, again, it definitely exists. Two of the leading actress in the middle episode were harassed off of social media. If you want to criticise the plot, or the acting, or whatever, do so. But there absolutely was an influx of criticism that was focused solely on characters that happened to be women, and / or not be white. It would be quite the coincidence if this matched precisely with the actual faults of the movies in question.
 
Gorbles said:
To talk a bit more about Star Wars, you included it in the same paragraph of the same post as Ghostbusters, when talking about those involved in the making of the movie who couldn't admit they made a bad movie. You said "another example would be the cast and crew of Star Wars". They weren't bad movies, by any commercial or popular measure people can make
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Yeah, that was poor wording on my part. I didn't mean to imply the movies were financial failures because, as you say, they weren't failures.
 
Gorbles said:
@rahBesides, cast members are allowed opinions. Just as much as you can disbelieve it, that doesn't mean either of you are right or wrong in this case. Like I said, you can't necessary quantify the impact. But likewise, that doesn't make such claims disingenuous. They could be simply and straightforwardly-held beliefs.

To talk a bit more about Star Wars, you included it in the same paragraph of the same post as Ghostbusters, when talking about those involved in the making of the movie who couldn't admit they made a bad movie. You said "another example would be the cast and crew of Star Wars". A mistake, then?

To talk about sexism and racism specifically, again, it definitely exists. Two of the leading actress in the middle episode were harassed off of social media. If you want to criticise the plot, or the acting, or whatever, do so. But there absolutely was an influx of criticism that was focused solely on characters that happened to be women, and / or not be white. It would be quite the coincidence if this matched precisely with the actual faults of the movies in question.
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Why don't we just chalk it up to the toxic, vapid, stupid, braindead elements of the media that exists today across the board and spectrum for this issue, and the whole deterioration of Hollywood movie-making, and society, culture, and governance as a whole. Why does it always have to be forced in the narrative as the old "one side of the political spectrum is completely to blame, and the other are innocent victims," trope? I think I know why. Because blaming about half of political, social, cultural, economic, and media leaders, and half of the political spectrums, for all the woes, and saying the other half "is the horse to back," is far easier to push than to say many, many such leaders across the political spectrum have failed us, betrayed us, lied to us, and committed crimes against us, and all the rotten leadership should go. It's easier, but it solves NOTHING in the long term.
 
Gorbles said:
No worries. Sorry, also edited my post for tone.
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Well, to me, the Star Wars SEQUELS, by Disney, were utter and complete trash, not worthy of the Star Wars label. But it's casting wasn't even remotely the problem for me.
 
Berzerker said:
I'm seeing trailers for Harrison Ford and Call of the Wild

the dog looks CGI or something :(
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Arthur C. Clarke wrote a book back in the '80's (I owned it in hardcopy when I was in secondary school in the early '90's) about his predictions for the world in 2019. And lo and behold, one of the only ones I clearly remember, was that he predicted Hollywood would come close to stop churning out brand new creative material and properties, but were just going to keep regurgitating and recycling old IP's in new movies constantly. Surprise! That one was spot on - I find it a VERY disappointing thing to come to pass indeed...
 
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