Another New player needing help

[SirTweek]

Ok so I just bought the game, with all the expansions, got a new computer I couldn't play it on my old one, and I need a little guidance. I've managed to beat Warlord a few times, so I've moved up to Noble and find it impossible to win.

Here's my strategy -- I research Mining and Bronze Working (unless I have mysticism, then I go for Polytheism first to get Hinduism) to get to chopping the trees around my city...after that I research the improvement techs like Agricultural or Masonry or whatever it is I need to improve the tiles around my first two cities, I then turn my research to Alphabet then to Code of Laws...I assume this is a good research strategy.

The production of my cities -- I go worker, worker, settler and proceed to chopping down every forest around as soon as I get Bronze Working, sometimes I find my first worker has nothing to do for the first little bit, until I get Bronze Working. After that I go for Stonehenge in my Capital if my Civ is not Creative, then I go for the pyramids, if I'm creative I skip stonehenge. My second City I build worker, worker, settler (am I building to many workers should I take one of the two I already have to my new city to chop rush a settler immediatly?)...by this point in the game I'm well on my way to the Pyramids (I find this to be the most useful wonder by far and I always get it)...I find by this time the animals have turned to barbarians and it's dangerous to leave my cities unattended so I build a couple defensive units, I try to pick up archery (should I be going for axemen instead, if I have the resources?), I build them in the second city and leave my first to the pyramids.

After I've got these two cities I delegate them to specialization, maybe I'm doing this wrong because the last two games I played are the first times I used specialized cities. I try to delegate my capital as the wonder/specialist city, building farms all around, my second city as the military city with a barracks and hills around, farms and mines. I then try to make my third city a science or commerce city, I cottage spam and try to build it near the coast....After my third city is founded I build another settler in it, leaving my capital to wonders and my second to making military units, after this third settler is built I found my fourth city and make it another commerce/science city, cottage spam ect...with these two cities I fill the production que as needed i.e. lighthouses, commerce/science improvement buildings, maybe a few workers. I then stop expanding. I try to get granaries in all my cities, I'm not sure about this they don't seem to helpful, besides boosting my pop into unhappiness and unhealthiness.

I try to get as many great engineer and great science wonders in my capital as is possible, great prophets aren't so bad either, even when I fail to get a wonder the cash is useful to put towards research.

By the time I'm ready to expand again, it seems the AI has already expanded to my borders and I have no space left so I'm left with four cities or I'm forced to have cities overlapping...this is not cool. My last game I was doing great was ahead in score for most the game...kept everyone off my back not one declared war on me...even built the apostolic palace and was elected a few times, then I get into the mid industrial age my score fell way behind and I go to look at my neighbor he's about five techs ahead of me...I think this is because of me lagging behind in the number of cities I have, my four to his eight is no competition, I then tried to build more cities and had them all stuffed together and cramped.

I'm not much for early war, but it seems I'm forced to by this game if I want to survive, I must take the other civs cities or be overwhelmed by it's rapid expansion, I do like to war but I prefer to wait until later in the game when I'm further ahead and have already established friends and pacts with other civs, more fun for me that way. Besides it's fun to backstab the friend you've had for the last few thousand years . I'm also not sure about the specialist cities, I've found scientists, engineers and priests to be the most useful specialists but I don't know when to assign them so I just let the AI delegate it put the governor on production and great people, then go check every once and a while and make sure he hasn't put any artists in there (they really do suck).

Any tips would be helpful, I think it has something to do with the order I build my settlers, but if I pump them out faster it doesn't seem to make a huge difference as I run out of money, how the heck does the AI expand so quickly without going way behind in science?

This game is great, best game I've played in a while, beats CivIII hands down, much more strategy and choice involved in this one.

 

[futurehermit]

In my current game I built 21 cities peacefully (see my other thread on this). Basically, I did the same as you in the opening, but didn't stop expanding until there was no land left.

Once there is no land left you have two options:

1) Go to war (95% of the time this is the right option)

2) Settle down to win because you have enough land (20ish cities, happens about 5% of the time on higher levels)

For the most part you are going to need to take out at least one rival to have enough land to win. If you start with a very close rival you can take them out sooner rather than later. If your closest rival isn't that close, you take them out when the land is gone and when your power graph is >= theirs.

You will not win if you have a smallish empire in most cases (there are exceptions!). In most cases you need to have the largest empire (at least by a bit) in order to win.

Also, remember that settlers and workers stop city growth so unless you are chopping them out it can be a good idea to build something else to let your city grow a bit before building these units.

Finally, try not to get bogged down with too many wonders. My rule of thumb: If you have stone look to build 1-2 early stone wonders and then consider beelining some techs to nab other stone wonders. Same for marble. If you don't have one or both then try to limit the wonders you are building. Instead, capture some wonders from your closest neighbour.

 

[Fold]

It sounds to me like your approach is too formulaic. No one strategy is good for every game. For example, I don't understand why you don't go to war when you get hemmed in with 4 cities early on - early is the best time to go to war before the AI has a chance to settle in, develop better military techs and gain cultural defence bonuses. If you only like to war when you're further ahead (good plan) then make sure you get further ahead earlier. But the specific strategy you take for this will depend on which civ you're playing as.

Having said that, it's definately possible to win games without warring, especially on noble. It does sound like you're building far too many workers, and potentially too quickly - what's the point in building workers that have nothing to do?

Why build the Pyramids every game? They cost 400 hammers... think how many settlers or axemen you could get for that. Is it conceivable that with the axemen you'd get from 400 hammers you could take a city from an AI that has built the Pyramids?

Finally, don't let the AI do anything for you, it's dumb and invariably screws things up.

 

[SirTweek]

I guess it's because I'm not much of a war type player...I assume an early war is mostly a matter of pumping out Axemen in all your cities and a few swordsman, maybe some archers to defend newly captured cites?

I mostly let the AI manage my great people city because I'm not sure what to do with it, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to wait until my city has reached the point where it's about to become unhappy then assign specialists until growth is stagnant?

 

[Ruler]

I'm not sure about this they don't seem to helpful, besides boosting my pop into unhappiness and unhealthiness.

How about you you let your cities to grow to max as fast as possible, work every tile make sure you have enough workers and when it start to show the sign of overpopulation, whip some units and kill stuff. I'm sure it's works for you, I'm not kidding.

Ok, sarcasm off. I think you should get more cities, four city doesn't stand for long. As for your questions, 1) You can't never have too many workers if everything else is set you can always build more and more workers. 2) Wonders are same if everything else is good couple extra wonders never harm you. 3) Axemens kills faster and increase your powergraph so AI is less likely to attack you.

Lastly. Don't ever forget grannies. Civ is all about land and cities. Bigger cities and more land you own more powerful you are. Always try to improve your land and make your cities to grow even bigger.

 

[Harbourboy]

Here's my strategy

What you have described is not a strategy, but a formula. The beauty of Civ IV over previous versions is that there is no longer a one size fits all solution to break the game. You need to take each game on its merits.

four city doesn't stand for long.

Again, this is not a hard and fast true statement. That depends on the map size. Four cities is fine for a Tiny map, too many for most Duel Maps. It is also possible to win some games with just one city. This week I almost won a Deity game with just four cities (but not quite - I really should have five in that game).

You can't never have too many workers

Of course you can, although most people don't have enough.

Wonders are same if everything else is good couple extra wonders never harm you

Yes they can. You can waste a LOT of hammers chasing Wonders that give you no benefit. In tight games, every hammer counts.

Civ is all about land and cities. Bigger cities and more land you own more powerful you are.

Only to a certain extent. If you expand too much, you will collapse. A solid 5 city empire will easily outpace a crappy 10 city one due to the impact of maintenance, unhappiness, and ill-health.