Answered: How to unload units from an army in PTW!

[Thorn]

Seems like a cheat. The purpose of a great leader is to build an army OR rush a project/great wonder. Now it looks like you can build an army then run around and terrorize Mongols until it's time to rush a wonder. Still, I do like the idea of unloading armies...

 

[cavemanf16]

Originally posted by Dragonlord
Kevo: Thanks for the info, I'll be glad to use it.

Cumulus: I absolutely agree - this should be a regular feature, with an option for the game settings. This issue is very similar to the culture flip thing - either you love it or you hate it. So why not allow us to choose what we prefer?
Please, Firaxis, don't "fix" this "bug" - make it a regular feature instead!

BTW, Kevo, how about a poll on this issue: Fix it, Don't fix it, Make it an option
I'd post it myself, but you should have the honor, IMO.

I agree. Culture flipping is pretty silly, as the AI behind it isn't very solid, and also because you LOSE all your units in the city when it flips. Logically, at least half your units would withdraw from a bad situation before they all got killed in a city 'upheaval.'

Secondly, Armies are far too expensive, rare, useful, and a welcome new dynamic in Civ3 for us to not be able to 'reconfigure' them for a more appropiate use. Personally, I wish Firaxis had taken the Army idea and furthered it. Allow the average speed of units to be used, allow bombard units to be part of the army, air units, water units, etc. (Not like bombers, but helicopters and triremes and stuff to allow for that 'blitzkrieg' style army here and there). But for goodness sake, don't "fix" this "bug" Firaxis! Include it as an "option."

 

[betheballdanny]

I hope that this is intended functionality for PTW. Personally, I like to have the most modern units possible in my military forces. Having an army of swordsmen guarding a city alongside mechs seems so ridiculous to me.

As far as improving the army concept, my thougths were that an army was basically a stack of units that just attacked at once. So, in order to maintain that stack, they have to move at the slowest unit's pace. Though, it'd be cool if the number of attacks per turn was determined in a similar manner. i.e. an army with 1 armor and 2 modern armor should be allowed 2 attacks per turn. But, one with only modern armor should be allowed 3.

 

[handyandy]

Originally posted by Thorn
Seems like a cheat. The purpose of a great leader is to build an army OR rush a project/great wonder. Now it looks like you can build an army then run around and terrorize Mongols until it's time to rush a wonder. Still, I do like the idea of unloading armies...

when you build a army with a great leader you can not then change your mind and finish the wonder

 

[solops]

Originally posted by DavesWorld
My US$0.02, it should be a feature to unload a unit from an army, not a bug.

Absolutely. There is no rational real-world argument for making army composition "fixed". Indeed, the whole concept of an army is that of a command/management structure through which units are freely cycled in a such a manner as to maximise the effectiveness of the army for its current task.

 

[alamo]

I think it is an exploit. Historically powerful armies were combinations of great commanders and loyal troops. You cannot interchange the troops or commander without loosing the espirit de corp.

From the tactical point of view, armies are not that great in the first place. You take three units and give it the movement/attack/heal of 1 unit. Sure, it is a good siege weapon, but you probably need to tackle more than 1 fortified defender anyway. Also, it's not that hard to kill an army. Like Schwartzkopf said - surround it, bombard it and kill it.

In the age of bombardment, armies are more like trophies than a serious tactical advantage. Early armies, on the other hand, can be decisive, since units are usually even at first.

 

[Jaybe]

IF the AI were programmed to take advantage of it, then leave it in.

Otherwise, FIX it! The player has more than enough advantages over the AI as it is.

EDIT: for grammar

 

[Grey Fox]

If this is a design choice by Firaxis, then let it be.

But if it's not, then it is surely a bug, and a Balance breaker.

You need to be strategic with Armies, and consider what to use in them. Making them able to unload would just unbalance the game, even if it would be more fun to some, it would be less of a strategic unit.

If they decided to make them able to unload, their value would increase HUGELY. ANd they might be able to decrease (or increase) the chances of getting leaders, and increase the cost of it.

 

[Kal-el]

Armies should have been unloadable from the beginning.

 

[Shieldman]

It has to be a bug. Much like the earlier stack movement bug that allowed one to unload an Army. Unloading would be unbalancing. The AI has a hard enough time with Armies as they are now.

On the other hand if the character of Armies were to change, I would prefer the units were upgradeable over the option of unloading the Army.

 

[MTheil3508]

I believe that they should make this a feature. I often delay building armies if I don't have too and save them for later in the game where I can have a more useful army and save my production for something else; improvements and units. It is almost useless to fight modern armor with an army full of swordsmen and pikemen.

As far as the AI not being able to unload them and upgrade, I just had the AI "see" my submarine when they did not even have galleys yet. Their galley ended up declaring war on me; attacking my submarine.

 

[anarres]

Originally posted by Grey Fox
ANd they might be able to decrease (or increase) the chances of getting leaders, and increase the cost of it.

I hadn't thought of this. You could swap elite units in from your new stonger units to get leaders, and swap them out for fresh elite units once they had generated a leader. Even more reason that it's a bug, not intended.

 

[ajerzguy]

IMHO, you should be able to upgrade an Army with newer available troops. That argument that armies should be used with the original units is haogwash. Show me just one famous general that went into war, was successful and never upgraded his troops with more modern equipment or reinforcements. There's nothing worse than having an army for hundreds of years then having them as swordsmen or horsemen going up against infantry and tanks.

I do feel that once a Great Leader is used as a general he should not be able to unload and the have the ability to immediately build anything. Once a soldier always a soldier.

Hopefully this is a recently discovered easter egg not a bug.

CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ajerzguy

 

[anarres]

Originally posted by ajerzguy
That argument that armies should be used with the original units is haogwash. Show me just one famous general that went into war, was successful and never upgraded his troops with more modern equipment or reinforcements. There's nothing worse than having an army for hundreds of years then having them as swordsmen or horsemen going up against infantry and tanks.

The army unit has been designed with it's use and power in mind, and the chances of getting them have been adjusted accordingly.

I'm not saying that Firaxis gets it right all the time, but this is obviously not intended behavoiur. Using this exploit unbalances the power of armies in general, and the AI won't be using this functionality at all.

IMHO, the 'this isn't like reality so it sucks' argument is pointless. Civ is nothing like reality.

On the other hand, I do agree that having swordsmen in the modern era is a bit silly. Maybe a good middle ground would be the ability to upgrade units in an army.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

They need to make it EASIER to unload units from Armies. Armies are rare enough in my games, they ought to be flexible.

 

[Sims2789]

u should be able to unload from an army. when we got tanks, we didn't hire all new generals. we used the same generals. it is a pain in the butt to have to get a whole new leader each time a unit becomes obsolete.

 

[anarres]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
They need to make it EASIER to unload units from Armies. Armies are rare enough in my games, they ought to be flexible.

Unloading units from an army = More warfare
More armies = More warfare

IMHO, this game favours war too much. I would like more armies but I am worried it will push it further in to a straight war game. Everyone would race for early leaders as they would be almost a requirement of victory.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Well, anarres, after the first ten times you win by culture, spaceship, or diplomacy, I think it does become a straight up war game for most players.

And we can discuss the merits of armys, but I don't waste too many leaders making them, I don't think they are really that much of an advantage (compared to a wonder like the Pyramids, Sun Tzu, Leonardo's, or Hoover Dam, for instance).

 

[LuckyOrDead]

I had wondered why, one could never upgrade units that were in an army. I only figured that that it would give a Military Civ to much of an advantage because they build more armys and get to keep them.

I now see that I can unload upgrade and reload GREAT

Firaxis should build it into the next patch :ripper:

 

[Bossman]

I believe it should be possible to upgrade armies -- not unload. Many divisions within nation's militaries are still the same organizations that have existed for centuries. However, they have all been upgraded to fit with changing technology. Many calvary divisions now operate tanks.

Some say this may put too much emphasis on war, but in response to that I say to just look at all of Human history: it has been one long war with a few outbreaks of peace.

Militaristic civilizations have always had an upper hand, but there has yet to be a civilization whose armies can stand up to just one of two things: an alliance of opponents or nuclear weapons.