Anyone find any use for "change religion" in espionage?

[sabo]

You seem to be able to get them to change ok, but then they usually change back again a turn or two later. Am I doing something wrong? Do they need to have a majority of the religion I'm trying to get them to change too?

Merci

 

[Kadazzle]

You can force them to change religions, but once they can change back, they will unless more of their cities have been converted. My understanding of the "Change Religion" espionage mission is so that you can get someone please/friendly with you for the time being, so that they may vote for you in the AP/UN or become your vassal.

 

[nanomage]

If they are not Spi, they stall in anarchy when revolting back. It is IMHO more useful to blow away dip. bonuses with other AI's to bribe them into a war.

 

[sabo]

I usually need them to change just to get friendly with me, I suppose next time I'll spread the religion a little more to them and see what happens then.

 

[Willem]

I usually need them to change just to get friendly with me, I suppose next time I'll spread the religion a little more to them and see what happens then.

You need to have a majority of their cities converted in order to be assured that the religion will stick. The AI will almost always switch back to the one that is established in the most cities. And if they actually founded the religion you're trying to subvert, then just forget it. They'll always switch back to thier own.

 

[IAM]

About 50% of the time I vassal an AI that has out-tech'd me. So the, for me, reason is to slow them down/and/or to improve relations to trade.

 

[Ghpstage]

Or lifting attitude enough to get open borders allowing you to convert them properly or spam your religion in cities (if you have shrine) for the espionage bonus when they swap back and/or gold with trade and diplo bonus for open borders ..

It really makes zealots like Isabella very easy to manipulate. Need some techs she has but she won't trade to an 'infidel'? Swap her to yours! Need a war ally against a civ with her religion? Swap her to yours!
These ones even work against Spi leaders luckily, but if your a Spi leader then combining religion/civic changes can lead to some real mayhem.

 

[tsentom1]

If they are under Theocracy, you can force them to change so you can spread your state religion more (for shrine income, espionage bonuses, AP votes, etc).

 

[Cryptoanarchist]

And if they actually founded the religion you're trying to subvert, then just forget it. They'll always switch back to thier own.

Not always true. Last time the egyptions didn't switch to their own but stuck with mine. Mine was far more spread and shared by ~70% of the other civs while noone had theirs. Not sure which factor contributed more.

 

[bhavv]

If they are under Theocracy, you can force them to change so you can spread your state religion more (for shrine income, espionage bonuses, AP votes, etc).

Does gifting them missionaries work for spreading religion to theocracies?

 

[Willem]

Not always true. Last time the egyptions didn't switch to their own but stuck with mine. Mine was far more spread and shared by ~70% of the other civs while noone had theirs. Not sure which factor contributed more.

Yeah, if another religion is well established within their empire then I can see it happening but if both are more or less equally spread then they'll pick their own everytime. And I've never noticed that what religion other civs are running makes any impact on their decision. As far as I can see they base it purely on how well established in their empire it is.

 

[Willem]

Does gifting them missionaries work for spreading religion to theocracies?

It used to, though I don't know if that was changed in the last patch or not. Alot of people considered it an exploit and I'm not sure if Firaxis closed that loophole or not.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It used to, though I don't know if that was changed in the last patch or not. Alot of people considered it an exploit and I'm not sure if Firaxis closed that loophole or not.

The unofficial patches did, the officials never did so, so in 3.17 you can still just gift them (assuming you at least have OB to get into their territory).

I call it fair play, until they patch away obvious oversights like favorite civics blocking *ALL* civic bribes, large #'s of civs not liking you enough at friendly, vassal interface lies, and hidden modifiers that are completely impossible to deal with in some circumstances.

Oh yeah, and the absolutely horrible, obnoxious, stupidly broken capitulation mechanics.

If they are going to touch up the wall whip/chop "exploit" and gifting to AIs in theocracy, they better !@#$%ing fix the other issues too, or I don't wanna hear it.

 

[Dan Quale]

I used it a couple times before bribing them into war so they would like me enough.