Zardnaar
Deity
It happened. The soldiers traded food and tobacco with each other. War can be odd.
ANZAC Day. Galipoli 1915
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It happened. The soldiers traded food and tobacco with each other. War can be odd.
nonconformist
Miserable
I believe that WWI was a fight between Generals and leaders in map rooms, and not the soldiers. That is why this sort of thing happened. ANZACS and Turks poking targets above the trench line (in at least one case a cut out of the Kaiser) for each other to shoot at, or the Christmas football match. It was a case of "Lions led by donkeys".
Gingerbread Man
Dark Magus
Nonconformist: I believe something like that happened on a christmas say in WWII as well. Shows that what you are saying is too true.
I noticed that the Vietnam vets are getting bigger cheers as they go past. Maybe it is to redeem our country from the sour reception we gave them when they came back. They really were lions led by donkeys. Put into a war that had no immediate threat to ourselves, in situations they shouldn't have been in.
When all our soldiers in Iraq come back, lets give them a good welcome home. They joined to defend our country, not to be players in politics. Whatever happens in Iraq, just dont disreguard them.
I noticed that the Vietnam vets are getting bigger cheers as they go past. Maybe it is to redeem our country from the sour reception we gave them when they came back. They really were lions led by donkeys. Put into a war that had no immediate threat to ourselves, in situations they shouldn't have been in.
When all our soldiers in Iraq come back, lets give them a good welcome home. They joined to defend our country, not to be players in politics. Whatever happens in Iraq, just dont disreguard them.
Case
The horror, the horror
While it would be nice if that were true, in reality almost all soldiers hated their oponents, and usually did everything in their powers to kill them. Cease fires and 'agreements' were very much the exception rather then the rule. Remember, the soldiers of WW1 were products of exactly the same society that produced the generals - nationalism wasn't confined to officers.
Australian troops actually enjoyed fairly warm repections upon their return. Unlike the US, the Vietnam war was consistantly popular with the Australian public, and units generally enjoyed welcome home parades upon their return. While the reception given to the troops could have been warmer, it's something of an exageration to call their treatment 'sour' or even compare it to how returning American vets were treated.
Gingerbread Man
Dark Magus
Hey, you know better than me. Though it still begs the question whether we will respect our Gulf War II veterans, or whether politics will get in the way.
Case
The horror, the horror
As tens of thousands of people lined to streets of Sydney to welcome them home about 11 months ago I'd say so.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Lest we forget that we invaded a sovereign nation and got our arses handed to us through our own stupidity.
Kokoda is the sort of thing we should be thankful to veterans for. Not ANZAC Day.
Kokoda is the sort of thing we should be thankful to veterans for. Not ANZAC Day.
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ANZAC day is to remember all australian & new zealand veterans.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
I'm referring to the decision to place our veterans' day on the date of our landing at Gallipoli. I don't consider that a proud moment in Australian history, and find it a bizarre choice.
It's less about pride but more because it's a tragic and significant event I think. It was Australia's and NZ's greatest single military disaster up until that point, so the date was chosen to remember those who sacrificed their lives (or whose lives were sacrificed, depending on your perspective) in the War. (I'm not sure when Anzac Day was first commemorated, but IIRC it was before WWII).
Lest we forget how stupid war is.
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Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Yet we continue to fight in wars with as much reason as we did then - none.
I know the reasoning behind ANZAC Day, I just don't understand it.
I know the reasoning behind ANZAC Day, I just don't understand it.
Zardnaar
Deity
Wow I stated ths thread a year ago. Maybe it will get bumped next year. Don't forget the Turks either.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Don't worry, there's another thread about them on the first page as well. Not particularly flattering though.
This,
and this.
Although I don't like the idea of having a public holiday to revere military service people. It seems to glorify war too much, even if the idea of it isn't intended as such. Perhaps I have a natural aversion to it due to the commercialisation and sensationalisation of it more than anything. I mean, all the TV stations are like, 'aren't we brilliant, having a short interlude before an ad break with a bugle and a pretty picture', and the politicians are going to Anzac Cove thinking, 'my show of unbridled nationalism will boost my popularity.' This is pretty sickening, and debases the whole day. So, compiled with the whole militaristic theme of it all, I don't like it.
Nationalism in Europe was mainly againist neighbours. I would be not sure if Turks and Anzacs hated each other.
Many people from Austria-Hungary went to war againist own will. Some hated more their co-belligrents than proclaimed enemies.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Don't get me started on the commercialisation of ANZAC Day. Two years ago, I noticed a Ralph magazine in the newsagents, with Nikki Webster - yes, that Nikki Webster - on the cover in camouflage lingerie. The headline was "One for the boys." That's a great way to celebrate ANZAC Day - putting some slut in a khaki bikini to sell some magazines. And that is not even close to the worst thing I've seen.
nonconformist
Miserable
It's easy for you all to take your Ivory tower positions and be all glib and trite about the sacrifices that were made during the Great War, but had you been there, you'd have been a digger, happily sailing off to Sulva from Australia.
I dont beleive for a minute any of you who arent opposed to killing from a religious point of view (i.e Quakers) would have opposed going over to the Dardanelles and killing for the Regina, because you wouldn't have known any better.
At the time, nationalism, militarism and such were the norms for society, and any of you who claims that they would not have been supceptible is a damn liar. The only reason you can say these kind of comments now is with the 20/20 benefit of hindsight, and the fact that the Great War, and the following wars changed the perception of warare forever.
And that's why we praise our veterans of that war, no matter what nationality, whether Aussie, NZ, English, Canadian, French, German, Turkish, austro-Hungarian, or whatever.
As far as they were concerned, that was their duty.
I dont beleive for a minute any of you who arent opposed to killing from a religious point of view (i.e Quakers) would have opposed going over to the Dardanelles and killing for the Regina, because you wouldn't have known any better.
At the time, nationalism, militarism and such were the norms for society, and any of you who claims that they would not have been supceptible is a damn liar. The only reason you can say these kind of comments now is with the 20/20 benefit of hindsight, and the fact that the Great War, and the following wars changed the perception of warare forever.
And that's why we praise our veterans of that war, no matter what nationality, whether Aussie, NZ, English, Canadian, French, German, Turkish, austro-Hungarian, or whatever.
As far as they were concerned, that was their duty.
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