So what you are saying is that these people were deceived into doing their duty, and due to that, we should revere them and everyone else who has every been in the military? Firstly, that would be revering something that you are accepting was not quite right, and secondly, it would be revering someone for doing something that you say was their duty, i.e. something that they should have done. Why not have a public holiday for everyone type of person who does their duty? Jihadists, traffic wardens, and as Sharwood said, SS men.
Seriously, you're comparing our brave Tommies, Poilus and Diggers to the SS? Really?
Can you not see the differenc between:
a)a conscripted legitimate military force embarking on a cause generally seen as just and perfectly legal under internaitional war
and
b) a volunteer
political organisation, dedicated to the furtherings of the caus eof a single ideology, engaging in mass murder and genocide?
If you can't then you're either very, very naive, or yo're a "rawr, look how lefty ands angsty and cool I am, and watch me hold my comfortable white middle class liberal pseudo-socialist ideas and appear morally better than you".
I'm pretty much one of the few old guard socialists left here, and recognisedly pretty radical by all accounts from the other old guard, and none of us would desecrate the memory of those who knew no beter, and who bloody died and had their lives destroyed by a useless war.
If you wanna be all angsty and punk-rock, hate the politcs and hate the cultural and political climates at the time, not the people forged by their epoch.
Oh, and by the way, yeah, there are some members of the Waffen SS who do deserve to be commemorated, again as misguided people, but as damned decnt soldiers, who gave it all for the wrong cause.
It doesn't seem right to be celebrating a holiday on the anniversary of the invasion of some other country; a failed invasion at that. Whether the intentions of it were nice and correct or not, does not change the fact that it didn't succeed, and was a display of incompetence on the part of the British. So, you may, say, this incompetence made Australia and New Zealand realise that they could not count on the Motherland. Why not celebrate on the anniversary of Churchill's refusal to allow Australian troops to go home from Europe and defend Australia? That would be far more appropriate.
It's a
date. We hae Rememberance Day on Armistice Day, and likewise. ANZAC day was chosen for that date because of its connotations.
Invasion? Turkey had declared war on the Allies, so to be honest, it's htheir own "fault", not the Allies, unless you wat to make some misguided revisionist claims.
Oh and by the way, the Turks took it very professionally and considered it a standard part of war, which they had opted into.
In fact Kemal Ataturk, leader of Tukey after the war, said,
Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives… you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets where they lie side by side here in this country of ours… You the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries, wipe away your tears. Your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. Having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.
so, uh, yeah.
Incompetance on the part of the British? You've been reading too much Rupert Murdoch, and you must have watched Peter Weir's Gallipoli too much.
The attacks you bemoan so much were largely fluffed by Major General John Antill, and Major General Frederic Hughes of the imperial Australian Army!
Oh and by the way, the Aussies and the NZers stayed loyal to the Regina, right up to post WW2. In fact, they were amongst our bet troopsin Libya, and they fought there quite willingly, ungrudgingly, and for the Regina.
It is used as a guilt trip towards anyone that is, firstly, a pacifist, and secondly, not a nationalist. It completely glorifies those two evils; unfettered nationalism and militarism. If it were trying to give the impression that war and unbridled jingoism are bad, it would not be saying how brave those men were for going and doing their duty for their country and Empire.
Its not a "guilt trip". You choose tro see it as a guilkt trip to better justify your position.
It's merely a day to remember the dead.
or is Holocaust Rememberance day a guilt trip to people who are opposed to genocide (which would mbe most people I assume?)It doesn't glorify nationalism or militarism, and noone chooses to do it as such, and it's only pseudo-liberal faux-lefties who have no concept of the circumstances who do.
I tell you now, a lot of pacifists who served in the army, as medics or non-combatants remember their dead. Are the Society of Friends Ambulance Service as you say "[unfetteredly] nationalistic and militaristic"? Because as a socialist, ideologically pacifist relgion, I'm sure they'd be fairly upset to hear that.
And what about those who came back from the war and vowed never again? And became pacifists? To remember their dead comrades, their friends is to succomb to jingoism?
What is even more wrong is pretending that all wars were righteous conflicts preserving everyone's freedom. Obviously that is a load of crap, yet it seems to be the impression that is given on every Anzac Day. Yet another reason why I don't like it.
Again, your argument is based almost entirely on strawmen. I don't think a credible historian has put forwards that argument since 1939.
I'd just like to say, that I'm pretty incandescent that two people tryigng to act all impassive and angsty and rebellious and such have managed to turn a thread about remembering those who fell in the line of action, to comparing them to the SS perpetrating the Holocaust.
For shame.