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AoI Difficulty

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven: Age of Ice' started by Thennorin, Jul 21, 2007.

?

How difficult do you think AoI is?

  1. Too hard

    40 vote(s)
    28.2%
  2. Just right

    72 vote(s)
    50.7%
  3. Too easy

    30 vote(s)
    21.1%
  1. vorshlumpf

    vorshlumpf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Victoria, BC, Canada
    Here's a bit of my strategy from when I won the game on deity level on quick speed. It applies mainly to those who don't mind turtling in their starting valley.
    Spoiler :
    Send your scouts to each choke-point immediately and have them Sentry on the spot. Basically, you want them to keep the barbarians from thinking that they can come at your city (I guess the barb AI didn't learn the same lessons about choke-points that the general AI did). Exploration will have to come later, depending on your difficulty level.

    Build a few warriors right away. You can send your initial spare warrior to one of the choke-points. I suggest at least two warriors at each choke-point (more for the highest difficulty levels). You can send an early warrior or your hero to that frostling den that is directly west. Other than that, I didn't push forth much at all.

    Once you've secured the choke-points, then focus on two things: development of your valley and getting missile units. I build a city on the hill at the western choke-point next to the wheat, and eventually another city to the north, next to the 'lake', that will take advantage of the deer. Note that cities do not count as choke-points - barbs will assault them.

    Another important improvement (besides mines, farms, cottages, and roads are forts on the choke-points. With the forested hill, your northern choke-point will have a defence rating of 100% and your units can use city defence promotions. My western choke-point is a mere 75% on the fort/forest.

    The missile troops are needed because of their barrage ability. Having enough of these units protecting each front will almost ensure that you won't lose any units. And, once you start your push forward, they will be indispensable for softening up city defenders. But that's a different spoiler ;)
     
  2. vorshlumpf

    vorshlumpf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Victoria, BC, Canada
    There's a bunch. They should all be listed in the 'Pedia.
     
  3. CulleyS

    CulleyS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Messages:
    7
    Yeah, I give up. :p

    Love the story and the landscape and the premise, but am so incredibly frustrated with the actual implementation. I know it's a war scenario, but it's also billed as an RPG style game and I don't see that. It's simple spam & attack.

    I find it INCREDIBLY boring to sit through turn after turn of attack. Maybe there's a way to just skip having to watch these? And, maybe I just suck horribly at war strategies, but I found I could barely even move even one square closer to an invader's city without needing at minimum 10 units. Still, playing at Settler. Can't imagine what folks are doing differently to find this game easy at Deity.

    I've tried taking it easy, building up my first city with stuff, while exploring the landscape and setting up at critical locations:
    Spoiler :
    horses, iron, copper the ship, etc. etc
    . Doesn't matter, if I post 1 unit there, I get slaughtered, if I post 3 or more, I get whipped by a barrage of enemy attacks. I've also tried rushing out, but the game seems to hate that.
    Spoiler :
    That damn bird keeps wiping out the galleon if I move in too soon.
    I guess I don't really even need the hilt until later in the game, but I can't even get later into the game, so it's a moot point. :D

    So, sorry to the guys who made this one up, I loved it at first and hate to sound whiny, but it's just so slow and clunky to play when you have to spam out so many units just to hold down even 1 resource... even at Settler. In fact, I've played at Settler, Chieftain, Warlord, and Noble and can see no difference whatsoever between the difficulty levels.
     
  4. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    5,633
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I always play civ with quick offense, quick defense, and quick movement turned on.
    Check the options menu.
     
  5. seZereth

    seZereth FfH´s art monk(ey)

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,900
    Location:
    Bayreuth
    I never do that, i am keen on watching those battles :) but well, i am the art guy... i see a pattern :)
     
  6. Sureshot

    Sureshot Goddess

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,771
    i found it hard my first time on Noble cause i was just trying to enjoy everything and pick based on what i thought my people wanted. had to quit that game because it became impossible.

    second time i just rushed assassins and didnt expand at all, then brutalized the doviello right off and then followed up on illians, after which it became easy heh. it was a very quick game, but if you dont go after them right away they expand too much, tech out to high heaven, and become impossible.
     
  7. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    5,633
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Well, I shouldn't have said always... I watch the new animations at least once each, but always end up turning quick combat on.
    Vorlshlumf managed to turtle quite well, but I usually strike quick. I'll post a after-game analysis I did later, maybe it'll be interesting.
     
  8. Scaphism

    Scaphism Boondoggle

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Messages:
    203
  9. vorshlumpf

    vorshlumpf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Victoria, BC, Canada
    Yes, the in-game Civilopedia is what I meant.

    Once I actually get some time to play computer games again, I just may have to try this rushing strategy. Unfortunately, I'm so used to my usual play style that I'll probably have to go down 4 difficulty levels to do so.

    Yeah, in my game I was severely out-teched and out-expanded. However, the tech tree does come to a stop, and that's what allowed me to win. After all, there isn't a time limit or a space-race in this scenario. So, after getting my archer units to defend my valley, it was just a matter of time before eventually getting the mammoth rider tech and owning the AI with those wonderful units. (though, thinking back, I just barely captured a mammoth before the Doviello basically owned the map; otherwise it would have been much harder to assault them - I killed over 300 mammoth riders as it was, if I recall correctly)
     
  10. bc1

    bc1

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,152
    Spoiler :
    Are you using your heroe ? The game seems to love a heroic rush: even if you get unlucky, there are 2 backup heroes in store. The goal here is to kill a god! Play it like a quest: you're not supposed to spend time building stuff, the enemy civs are there to do that for you. No wasting time building cities and fine tuning ressources. No big stacks of units. No teching (all you need is forge).
    This scenario is fast, dense and has that heroic brinksmanship flavor. And it's best to play that tune to win.
     
  11. hexagonian

    hexagonian of the realm of Hexagonia

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    217
    Location:
    Lombard, Hexagonia
    Well, after getting the chance to play an earlier beta build a few months ago, I finally get a chance to see how far the scenario has evolved.

    My first three attempts were monumental failures. (at Noble)

    I'm about 120 turns in on the fourth attempt, and finally having success. I suspect that getting over the early game hump will make or break you.

    Spoiler :

    The first time, picking Belenus, I concentrated on grabbing the copper resource and the northern barbarian city as quickly as possible (which I used as a strategy in my beta game with great success), and was promptly worn down by the flood of Mulcarn/Doviello/Barbarian forces, even while cranking out swords.

    The second time, I didn't even make it out of the valley because a Doviello force was able to sneak in at the southwest pass and was able to get to my capitol. I saw my defeat video...

    The third time, picking Epona, I turtled in the valley, and although I was able to hold off all invasions, I could not make any headway out of my valley after 200 turns - again because of the sheer number of invaders from both the west and the north. Even with barrage and fireball, I stood to lose more units than the enemy (based on the odds I was seeing), and would have been worn down by attrition. Perhaps I could have eventually broken out, but I do not like to play games which end up being an endless grind of attrition either.

    So after thinking about it, the main key seemed to be - do not let the Doviello get strong. I picked Belenus. My strategy became focused on pillaging Doviello lands, hitting any lone units if they poked their heads out, and hitting the lightly defended Doviello cities - and this was important - razing those cities if I felt I could not hold them (this was important because whenever I normally play civ4, I have a house rule NOT to raze any cities).

    Normally I would beeline to Bronze, because I focused on getting that copper resource, but instead, I beelined to Archery and Horses.

    After sending Belenus and a couple warriors out into Doviello lands and doing some pillaging/hit and run, they doubled back and took the northern barbarian city. That city proceeded to crank out warriors, and then archers and went purely defensive. A large force of barbarians and Doviello units made that area a stalemate (I could not take out the Doviello units), but they could not crack me either - my goal was to build up experience points for those units.

    Belanus and his small army proceeded south and redid the pillage/hit and run, and razing the Doviello city by the horse resource. They continued to patrol that area and further northward into Doviello lands to prevent Doviello expansion. They also managed to take out the Doviello city (and Lugh) by the northern copper resource.

    This kept me from fighting a two-front war of attrition, which was what I ran into in my third failed attempt. Normally I would be beelining to that copper site too, but I concentrated on the horse instead because it was not subject to blizzards. All I needed to do was make sure that the Doviello would not reestablish themselves on that site. So Belenus continued to bounce from the north to the south on patrol.

    In my valley, I built a second city by the wheat, and proceeded to create more archers while my capitol built a settler. A worker had been networking my cities with roads, and it built a road out to the horse. The archers and settler all headed west and met up with Belenus, and promptly built a city right on the horse resource. That city was able to quickly build horsemen, which went northward toward the copper. My worker proceeded to road up to that vacant copper site. I now have a settler en-route to that site, with a sizable force to defend it. Once I get swords, I will relieve the forces by my northern barbarian city, then based on what Belenus was able to see in his excursions into the remaining Doviello lands, I should be able to mop up the remaining cities.
     
  12. TheJopa

    TheJopa Šumar

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    2,008
    Location:
    Croatia
    Defeated on Prince! Well, I have to start again...
    EDIT: On noble this time
     
  13. Hoerks

    Hoerks Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    56
    I played on noble and the Doviello were not much of an treat because their capital focused on building wonders rather than units. The other AI spammed units at some point but i could just camp the first wave with my warriors in a conquered barb city outside of the valley. After that i took the doviello out with epona+troll with cityraider +archers since there was no copper or iron nearby.
    The Ai was a bit smarter and got crossbow alot earlier than me. But for some reason it didnt produced that many of them and i could kill the second AI with my old SOD+my new swordmen cause of all the copper and iron by the doviello captal. So i killed them with ease. i only got stopped at some point when the barb started to send all his frostgiants at me. But the fireballs handled them easily and i got my first mammoths showing up. i spend the rest of the game exploring the map and finding that island with the last part of the godslayer. (even conquered every single city of the AI, including that weird capital at the very far north west.
    The dragon first took me by surprise and got a city but was stopped by a large stack in the second city cause i got plenty of time when it first went all the way up to the upper left and then back to the mid of the map. It finally got killed by some anti melee promoted assasins at the same turn i killed mulcor himself.
    I found it to be a bit to easy for most of the game. Maybe becasue it was rather straight forward. First destroy that civ, than that civ and then find some island and finally teach a single unit to go to a certain tile without being spotted.
    The first part would have been harder if the fertile land was a bit more spread over the map. That would have made war more diffcult vs multiple ai since you would have had to defend and could attack in more than one direction.
    Destroying utgard was very easy cause the last frostgiant left it defended only by a few animals vs my stack of 5 war mammoths.
    The Dragon should ge blitz and march promotion and maybe more support units units when spawning.
    Mulcorn should get some defedning units around him or something simualr. he is just a sitting duck that right now.

    EDIT: Oh and about early game: i founded one city next to the weat. At first i placed some warrior at the chokepoints too but at the time the ai attacked me i already got that barb city. i dont know if it is always there. was a bit lucky when conquering it though. After that the AI concentrated on attacking this city and leveling my warrior(s). Later i founded a second city at the sea cause i thought i will be going to need ships. Only to learn that you cant buld any at all. After getting some decent SOD (see above) War was rather easy.
     
  14. andrewlt

    andrewlt Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    472
    Spoiler :
    I got overwhelmed my first game on Noble. I tried expanding/exploring early and my expansion city got destroyed and my second settler got captured. I got attacked by Doviello, Illians and barbs and that was that.

    My second game, I still destroyed the barb city thinking that wasn't a good location which was a mistake. I warrior rushed the weaker Doviello city and destroyed it. Lost 1-2 decently upgraded city raider warriors trying to move to their capital. Instead, I found another city which was small and had Lugh in it. I attacked it with my lone upgraded city raider warrior and 5 crappy ones. I was surprised when they gave up and happily accepted.

    I made a ton of additional mistakes as well.
    1. I wasn't as aggressive in having Epona attack frostlings at the start. I'm at the end now and with 5 combat promotions, her fireball is really powerful. It made the game easier.
    2. I built a city near the copper near the Doviello lands. I couldn't string irrigation to it so it languished as a size 2 city. The Doviello were my allies but they didn't irrigate to it so I was stuck. I also had to build a city on the same exact spot as the barb city I destroyed. I built a city a bit to the north. Blizzards destroyed the grasslands and I eventually just let the barbs have it.
    3. I didn't beeline for archers. Swordsmen are kinda useless and I built quite a few. That city near the copper was also using up maintenance money and was size 2 until late in the game. I don't have maceman yet and I need quite a few turns still to get iron. I already have mammoth riders, though.
    4. After I got the Doviello, I did some expanding/exploring and Mulcarn got big and destroyed my ally and I wasn't able to help that much.
    5. I built quite a lot of catapults. They were only somewhat useful. Epona fireballs and archer barrage are decent substitutes. The building to produce them was expensive and took too long to build. I think I should've delayed getting them or not bother at all.

    Eventually, I built a lot of longbowmen and crossbowmen and had a bit of a stalemate with Mulcarn. I was slowly gaining the upper hand when he sent his reinforcements to capture Doviello's last city instead. He lost quite a few units getting their capital so I was able to recapture it quickly and raze one of their cities. With the Doviello capital under my control, I was able to spread irrigation to my 2 other cities and grow them a bit, though it wasn't really needed at that point. I had the upper hand and just slowly destroyed Mulcarn's cities one by one. I'm about to get the 3rd piece at this point.


    I took two tries as well. I'm about to grab my 3rd piece at this point in my second game. Still made a lot of mistakes but I think I'm winning this one.
     
  15. LUEser

    LUEser Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    49
    I found it quite easy, but that's probably because I'm used to using fireball warfare in ffh2...and maybe because a goody hut gave me knowledge of the ether only 10 turns in >_>. Yay early fireballs? :p
     
  16. Seventh Child

    Seventh Child Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    83
    Love the scenario. Nice and brutally hard too.
    Got overwhelmed in my first two games. I managed to "beat" it on the third. I didn't really beat it but after spending an entire night getting all three pieces on the only game I had managed to take out both the Mulcarn and Doviello, I went to save and accidentally hit Load. Haven't had the heart to try since then.
    Spoiler :

    -I found the most useful hero to be Epona. If you head quite far Nor-West with a Scout there is a fortress type thing. Entering the square seems to give you Knowledge of the Ether (I stumbled upon it by chance in my first game using Epona for the tech bonus. It's given me Knowledge of the Ether for every game since).
    -Never move units alone. In the beginning game I sent out all my units in pairs.
    -Hit Doviello hard and fast. By the time I had Knowledge of the Ether and had a force strong enough (about 2-3 Warriors and Epona the Sorceress) the Barbarian town of Deluoc is big enough to seize. Take it, put a Warrior in there and move on. Harass them with Fireballs until you have maybe 3-4 Warriors and Epona, then soften up the capital and take it (Don't forget to bombard to lower the City Defence). I usually fortify my warriors just outside the city with Epona on the same stack hurling fireballs until it's weak enough.
    -At the same time take control of the area just west with the frostling den, send two scouts or warriors. Scouts seem strong enough to take out frostling dens but keep them in pairs.
    -Archery. Get it quickly. Archers and Longbowmen are INVALUABLE in this scenario. They make the single best city defenders and are still very strong on the attack. They should be your bread and butter.
    -Taking the Doviello capital quickly and keeping it, ensures a Mammoth supply (At least it did for me) a very useful unit later on with 13 Strength.
    -To the far west is an Ice Castle thing. Destroy it to stop Frost Giants coming along. I got very lucky taking it out though so not much strategy here but to soften them up with archers and maybe use your hero.
    -Assassins don't seem very good at anything other than killing Heros and taking out lone wandering melee units. Which is what they're there for I s'pose.
     
  17. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

    Joined:
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    5,633
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Well, if you hadn't taken out the frost giant castle, those assassins take them out like nothing else.
     
  18. Blakmane

    Blakmane Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    447
    An interesting tactic to try with fireballs/skeletons, although it's a little bit of an AI exploit, is to summon them and then move them to an empty square next to the city. The AI will usually attack them (yes even the fireballs) and hopefully lose a unit in the process- if you've been sensible and pillaged all the roads, the unit that kills your fireball/skeleton will now be a sitting duck for your forces to dispose of.

    I used this tactic to easily defeat the doviello early on (thanks to a raven marked warrior). Once the doviello are gone, the illians are hardly an issue at all.
     
  19. Taipan1974

    Taipan1974 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2005
    Messages:
    18
    I played this scenario on emperor level. After 50 turns or so I had to do a partial restart and go back to an old savegame (before founding my first new city), after that I had fun and eventually won in year 640. (65k points as final score). Loved the scenario, nice twist from vanilla civ. The only thing that puzzled me was figuring out how to make mammoth riders - pedia wasnt entirely clear...you have to get hunters to capture mammoths and sacrifice them right on the only source spot of ivory.
     
  20. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
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    Actually, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter where you sacrifice them. Mammoth camps create their own ivory resource.
     

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