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Apocalypto

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Cam_H, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. nocho

    nocho Chieftain

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    Nice work!
     
  2. Sengir

    Sengir Chieftain

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    Turn 6:
    Regrouping

    Turn 7:
    Regrouping

    Turn 8:
    Regrouping

    Turn 9:
    Steel in, set tech to Steam Power, we can probably trade for it next turn. SB has rifles, so I'm not attacking just jet. We might have to reconsider and whip out some cannons. I'll stop here.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    Thanks for finishing the turnset Sengir - this is a 'got it'.

    I'm a bit divided on whether we go after Sushi (Medicine, Corporation, Great Merchant) or whether Communism + Corporation and using the next Great Person for a Golden Age is the best option. State Property and Corporation seems more sensible, but I'm quite OK to go with the Corporation idea. Mining Inc. would be hugely advantageous, but I can't see us getting a Great Engineer in less than 50 turns anywhere.

    I also assume that we settle for peace with Isabella at the first opportunity (hopefully Chemistry and gold is the most she'll want).

    I guess, as proposed, we whip out Cannons and perhaps the occasional Rifleman. Ball Courts do seem to be the cheapest way of dealing with our pressing Emancipation unhappiness beyond the whip.
     
  4. Sengir

    Sengir Chieftain

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    Also, we can trade for Democracy and (I hope) Steam Power.

    We have enough trouble generating GP's for GA's, so I think I'd go Communism now. OTOH, if we get Steam Power in trade, we might as well pick up RR first, to make transportation a bit easier and to get a more mobile defense.

    Oh, and I'd rather not give too much for peace. We've fought of the first wave, have a direct view on the second. The threat isn't really big at this point.
     
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    State Property and Corporation? 2 can't coexist

    I think we should wait to switch civics for a Golden Age. 2 turns or more is a lot on Normal speed and we have a lot of catching up to do and we need to press SB. Surprised he got to Rifling already. I'd say we still start to hit him with mass Cavs attack and the bring in cannons later for the tougher cities.

    i don't think we should be giving anything to Iz for peace.
     
  6. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    dp.....
     
  7. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    (I've been unable to get onto the forums for a couple of days - I assume everyone had the 'database error' too).

    Corporation (technology) for +1:traderoute: and Wall Street in Cuzco.

    First Draft PPP

    OK, the tech' path for me would be; Corporation (passive +1:traderoute:) > Communism (access to State Property when we're ready) > Steam Power > Railroad

    But we can trade away Biology for both Democracy and Steam Power. I'm not against Emancipation particularly given 43 tiles of cottages/hamlets/villages, and overcoming the obvious :mad:, so this civic by the end of our Golden Age seems fine. Steam Power's just a great tech' - not as great as Biology, but if we're also getting Democracy in our trades, I think that these deals are a net surplus for us.

    In terms of international arrangements, I must confess that I am quite unconfident about running our Cavalry into Sitting Bull's Protective Rifles, but will do so at the roster's direction. If we can take Poverty Point and Mound City even with a massive loss, we should be able to take the rest of Native America with patience. I 'hear you all' regarding signing peace with Spain, and I'll keep in mind your position.

    A few minor notes on builds; (a.) we need a couple of Missionaries to deliver Hinduism into two cities without this faith, (b.) I'd go for Observatories before Universities now we have Oxford, (c.) Corihuayrachina looks like a candidate for National Park given that there are five forests there which I think is the best we'll do on our continent - any interest in this?, and (d.) Grocer after Temple in Lakama.
     
  8. nocho

    nocho Chieftain

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    Right now steam power is bio+235, so maybe if we put a turn into physics (and possibly another one in steam power) we can get physics and steam power from Liz and Joao for bio? I can imagine getting stuff in trade from WvO and even Iz after we sign peace, for instance chem for corp with Iz, or even bio/steel for demo/corp with WvO. At least I don't think I would self tech corp and not more than a turn of steam power if avoidable. Getting physics would be great too.
     
  9. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    Corporation's a pretty cheap tech' for us, will yield a fair chunk of raw :commerce:, and it's one of those tech's that the AI seems to be very reluctant to trade if not at 'Friendly'. I'd still like for it to be considered for self-research, but will bow to the roster's verdict.

    I'm happy to try for Physics rather than Democracy in the trades if that's preferred by part-researching it as nocho's proposed.
     
  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    I think Corp is fine as well. It will provide a boost and is required for Ass.
     
  11. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    A difficult turnset. I suppose in review we did OK, as we declared on Sitting Bull and have taken two of his better cities in Cahokia (former capital) and Poverty Point, but Joao did end up DoWing us, and we've still not settled peace with Isabella and Willem.

    During the turnset we lost Ollantaytambo, Chaco Canyon and Tlaxcala to the Native Americans, and Calixtlahuaca to the Portuguese, although consequently recovered them all. Joao's Destroyer-Transport stack near our south-east has been just drifting around our landmass.

    Our empire is in a bit of a shambles due largely to heavy unhappiness ("We demand emancipation", "We will not fight the brothers and sisters of the faith", "War, what is it good for?", "We can not forget your cruel oppression"), and this contributed to the slowing of the next Great Person, as Lakamha had its fair share of whiners and we couldn't support the specialists.

    I am afraid to say that we pretty quickly ran out of puff against Sitting Bull, who had small garrisons, but four-ish/city CGIII Rifles entrenched behind good defenses were always going to be difficult for our mid-sized stacks of Cavalry without siege. Unfortunately I lost plenty of units along the way. We're finally getting some Cannons up toward the north end of our empire, so re-engaging Sitting Bull in battle could be again feasible, but there's no mega-stacks to get enthused about right now.

    In terms of tech', I swapped immediately to Corporation, that yielded a +10%:commerce: boost when it came in. As proposed, I did drop a turn into Physics, which Elizabeth will trade for Biology. I've not pursued this however, as other trades are not possible. We're one turn from Communism.

    lymond << On Deck
    nocho
    Sengir
    Cam
    Norvin_Green << Up


    Report ...

    Spoiler :
    (Apologies for any mis-spelling of city names!)

    Opening

    Changed University builds to Observatories, whipped the Ball Court in Mayapan and Library in Tenochtitlan, queued up Hindu Missionary builds in Texcoco and Tlatelolco, and began researching Corporation at 60%:science:.

    Turn 1 | 1580AD

    Mayapan: Ball Court > Hindu Temple
    Hurrian: Ball Court > Cannon
    Xukpi: Cavalry > Ball Court
    East Shangian: Ball Court > Hindu Temple
    Huananga: Library > Forge
    Tenochtitlan: Library > Forge
    Chaco Canyon: Granary > Barracks
    Corihuayrachina: Culture > Forge
    Uxmal: Wealth > Cannon
    Tiawanaku and Tlaxcala: Whip Courthouses
    Oxhuitza, Quirigua, Vitcos, and Vilcas: Whip Ball Courts

    Turn 2 | 1585AD

    Corporation > Physics, down to 50%:science:

    Cuzco: Granary > Wall Street
    Oxhuitza: Ball Court > Cannon
    Hurrian: Cannon > Cannon
    Quirigua and Vicas: Ball Court > Cannon
    Vitcos: Ball Court > Wealth
    Machu Pichu: Ball Court > Forge
    Tlaxcala: Courthouse > Barracks
    Tiwanaku: Courthouse > Culture
    Texcoco: Hindu Missionary > Observatory

    No more Mr. Nice Guy ...



    Joao's attitude drops to 'Cautious' as we declare war on his friend.

    Steal two Native American Workers, pillage some fishing nets, lose a battle at 79% against a Knight in the field (in keeping with the tone of the turnset), spread Hinduism into Xochicalo. Citizens begin whining about fighting the brothers and sisters of the faith.

    Calixtlahuaca: Change mind, and interrupt Library and opt for a Courthouse.

    IBT



    He's got Destroyers and Transports.

    We lose a pretty poorly defended Chaco Canyon to Sitting Bull, while Ollantaytambo has an enemy stack at its doorstep.

    Turn 3 | 1590AD

    Mayapan: Hindu Temple > Cavalry

    Retake Chaco Canyon.
    Chaco Canyon: Courthouse

    Attack Poverty Point: two Cavalry withdraw, two lose, the rest win.



    Sitting Bull has a big stack with tons of siege outside Ollantaytambo, that have knocked out its defenses. Our eastern mini-stack of Cavalry head away from Mound City and veer toward Ollantaytambo.

    Try to pick off a stray Native American War Elephant at 78%, and lose.

    Having put a turn into Physics ...

    Physics (interrupt) > Communism, however we need :gold: for upgrades in light of Portuguese, and opt for 0%:science:.

    Calixtlahuaca: Whip Courthouse

    IBT

    Lose both Ollantaytambo and Tlaxcala to the Native Americans.

    Turn 4 | 1595AD

    Xukpi: Ball Court > Cannon
    Vilcabamba: Forge > Cannon
    Calakmul: Maoi Statues > Forge

    Retake Ollantaytambo and Tlaxcala.
    Ollantaytambo: Forge
    Tlaxcala: Courthouse

    Elizabeth will trade Physics for Biology + our Map + :gold:, however with no other trading opportunities any more, we don't pursue this trade.

    IBT

    We lose a Frigate and two Cavalry.

    Turn 5 | 1600AD

    Hurrian: Cannon > Cavalry
    East Shangian: Hindu Temple > Cavalry
    Quirigua: Cannon > Cannon

    Hinduism successfully spread into Teohutican.



    ... and we pick up a Great General, who's sleeping in Hurrian awaiting 'instruction' ...



    With some :gold: in the federal reserve, we bounce back up to 50%:science:.

    IBT

    Joao drops eight units outside Calixtlahuaca; a Cavalry, three cannons, and four Grenadiers.

    Turn 6 | 1605AD

    Oxhuitza: Cannon > Cavalry
    Hurrian: Cavalry > Cavalry
    Vilcas: Cannon > Rifle

    Upgrade Axe to Rifle at Calixtlahuaca - maybe we might do some defensive damage to Joao's invasion stack. Several cities near Calixtlahuaca drop their builds for Cavalry.

    IBT

    Lose Calixtlahuaca.

    Turn 7 | 1610AD

    Chichen Itza: Bank > Ball Court
    Xukpi: Cannon > Cavalry
    Huamanga: Forge > Ball Court
    Teotihuacan: Library > Barracks
    Tiwanaku: Culture > Forge
    Tenochtitlan, Texcoco, Tlaxcala, Xochicalo, and East Shangian all get Cavalry whips.
    Oxhuitza: Whip Cannon
    Vilcas: Whip Rifleman

    Our eastern Cavalry mini-stack head toward Calixtlahuaca.

    IBT

    Joao upgrades two Grenadiers to Infantry in Calixtlahuaca.

    Turn 8 | 1615AD

    Oxhuitza, Tenochtitlan, Texcoco, Tlaxcala, Xochicalo, and East Shangian: > Cavalry
    Vilcas: Rifleman > Lighthouse

    Turn 9 | 1620AD

    Isabella is prepared to talk peace, but wants our Maoi Statues city to settle.

    Mayapan: Cavalry > Cavalry
    Vilcambamba: Cannon > Cannon
    Manchu Pichu: Forge > Market

    Retake Calixtlahuaca using two sui-Cannons, but dispose of the remaining defenders without loss.

    [Call it a day, and hand-over]

    Miscellaneous end of turnset screenshots:












     

    Attached Files:

  12. Sengir

    Sengir Chieftain

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    Nice set, given the circumstances. Cav vs CGIII-rifles is always a mess.

    Anyway, plan is relatively straightforward: limp four more turns (pray for non-scientist), then revolt (US, FS, Eman, SP, might as well go FR as well). We do need Demo for that though, so we might have to wait a turn, or trade for Demo.

    Cori-something is empty, might as well put at least a unit in it. Also, a galleon in Calakmul would be nice, ship over a bunch of rifles first, then a bunch of cannons. Hopefully we can kill the stack with few losses, getting some war-success to end that war.
     
  13. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    Thanks Sengir - it was a messy round.

    There's a Cavalry heading to Cori-something, and should arrive next turn. I decided to use every 'semi-available' unit for the strike on Poverty Point, which included emptying Cori-something.

    A few minor points ... according to BUG, Sitting Bull is prepared to capitulate to us, although currently won't speak to us. There's a small stack of six Cavalry units in Uxmal that I kept 'down south' for anti-invasion purposes, but I guess that they could be broken up, with a few units heading to Lakamha and Mutal to offset some of the unhappiness there. Also, we scored a Great General in Hurrian who's sleeping.

    I agree that we've got to get out of these civics asap, but it's unfortunate to run a Golden Age with such a heavily whipped/starved population and also while we're still in so many wars. I'm also a fan of Free Religion.

    (I'll put together a more complete report fairly soon - for the lurkers).
     
  14. Sengir

    Sengir Chieftain

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    I'd keep that stack south, or at least have it follow the Portugese fleet; hopefully it can kill them off (let's hope he brought a lot of cannons, cavs eat those things for breakfast)

    We might consider running the slider for a couple of turns, to offset some of the unhappiness. That'd not bring in the GA any sooner though.
     
  15. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

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    Thanks for not forgetting about, hmmm, us, hmmm, V and the rest, I guess!!:D
     
  16. Mikehendi

    Mikehendi IDHEOMHRN

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    Hey guys, Don't wait for me. I resigned from the game a few pages ago, remember?

    Still lurking though:goodjob:
     
  17. Norvin_Green

    Norvin_Green Chieftain

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    Got it. I will do my best to post a PPP later today.
     
  18. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    Mike - sorry - I did forget!

    Norvin - thanks for the note - I've still got a report to flesh out a bit, but I guess you can see our predicament from the save.
     
  19. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Well, we seem to have an uphill battle. Sitting Butt getting Rifles did not help matters and likely Izzy's attack threw us for a loop in that regard. Still, it will be a fun challenge to try to pull our heads out from under.
     
  20. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    I'm confident that we'll ultimately be fine - it was just a real mess during my turnset, and will be for a few more turns. The fact that Sitting Bull is prepared to capitulate to us once we get over the 'no talk' duration would indicate to me that we really dented his military when we slugged it out over Ollantaytambo and Chaco Canyon. With a bit of Cannon collateral, we should still be able to take him out, or at very least take Mound City and cap' him.

    I'm not 'jumping for joy' that Joao has Assembly Line and Combustion, but I hope that our 'surprise' at Calixtlahuaca will be all that comes our way - much as Isabella's not done much with her troops since her landing.

    The civic switches and dealing with Sitting Bull (in one fashion or another) will be the launching pad to better times.

    [Edit] Updated Post #311 with report. [/Edit]
     

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