Apocalypto

[Cam_H]

I thought that the problem with nocho was that he forgot the variant rule(s). I don't know what he's referring to about whipping: Mutal was whipped, Chichen Itza was/is too small to be whipped, and I deliberately didn't whip Lakamba to get/keep its population at the happy cap ... it was my thought/impression that we were shooting for a Settler out of Lakamba to grab Ivory-Fish to our north-west after that Holkan was done. Personally I'd go for a Settler before a Worker in light of comparatively little good available tile use at the moment for Workers.

 

[vranasm]

Put chichen on that cottage after the monument completes.

Woody should make his way back south. Don't forget that he can move 1 tile per turn in jungle to avoid barbs.

Mutal can start a settler after growth and switch off to grow as the unhappy wear off. Laka can build a settler at some point too, but I'd like to get 1 or 2 more Holkans out. Not sure we should run a scientists until Mutal grows back and gets out at least 1 settler.

1400 BC is good date to start hunt first GS for academy imo. i would grow mutal to happy cap (or future happy cap after eventual unhappy from whips wear of) and run 2 scientists while building worker/settlers working cottages.

Btw we should think about happy cap and increasing the cap, given the area and us not able to mine, I think we should really deeply think about going calendar and not trading for it like it is the usual way.

Surely it is tough decision, what is more important currency or calendar. It brings some dilemmas.
I wouldn't disclose HR too, since it's basically at least +1 in each city, but given our limited production we will have some limits on growing capital.

Bringing capital to 10+ size in BC is favorable here with all those cottages and us being financial.

 

[vranasm]

as for next TS... I think we really should OB with SB and Inca and hope for some missionary bombs from them...
we really could use the religion for all purposes.

I guess it starts to turn out we got our nice continent with hindu dominant religion (the other will probably be budh dominated land). The tech speed will be quicker due to this probably.

Monty is biggest danger as usual for BC, early AD era... let's hope he will hindu too and we will be able to stop him getting ideas...
Biggest WTH moment awaits when we meet other continent.

As I see it, after checking OP post it's continents map, then I would do the usual... wipe our continent up to 1500 AD with something useful (like cuirs, cavs), then either SS and watch the other (best option imo) or domination with SP on infantries or something (tanks etc).

 

[Sengir]

I wouldn't wait for Infantry if we wipe our continent with Cuirs/Cavs... just ship them over and continue warring. It'll be interesting how the north of our continent turns out, as it seems they'd be pretty close together with a large swath of jungle between us and them. So my vote would be to get our peninsula locked up, make sure we've got a whole bunch of workers and settlers ready for the moment we will be able to settle the jungle, and while we settle the jungle, let our peninsula cities prep for war.

 

[nocho]

I thought that the problem with nocho was that he forgot the variant rule(s). I don't know what he's referring to about whipping: Mutal was whipped, Chichen Itza was/is too small to be whipped.

I did forget about the variant rule, but my point still stands... The whipping refers to Chichen Itza. It would have been much better to whip the monument. Right now we invest 10 turns without growth to get a monument by using that (awful ) 2h tile. So after 10 turns we have our 30h building and are size 1 with no food stored.

Had we worked the forest, we would have grown after 11 turns and could have whipped the monument then. In those 11 turns we'd have generated 22 hammers plus 30 hammers from the whip, or a total of 52. So for 1 turn more we get 22 hammers more.

Even better would have been to farm one of the grasslands. For comparison sake, if we'd have worked the forest for 8 turns and that farm for 2, we'd have the required food for the whip after the same 10 turns it costs working the 2h tile, but again with a bonus of 8*2+2*1=18 hammers, or more than half an expansive granary... In other words we'd have generated 48 hammers this way as compared to the 30 from working the PH. So working the food is 48/30 or 1.6 times better than working the bare hammers (even ignoring the extra commerce from a riverside farm).

I'm not an expert on food to hammer ratios, but I do remember reading a comment by kossin that even a plain 2f grass tile is better than a PH forest of 3h (makes sense with the 1.6 ratio I just calculated), let alone a 2h tile. I think he even called 3h tiles "junk".

Well, all this to indicate why my aversion to the 2h tile.

EDIT: On the same vein I can't imagine working the 1f2h tiles in Lakamha being better than the FP farm...

 

[vranasm]

I did forget about the variant rule, but my point still stands... The whipping refers to Chichen Itza. It would have been much better to whip the monument. Right now we invest 10 turns without growth to get a monument by using that (awful ) 2h tile. So after 10 turns we have our 30h building and are size 1 with no food stored.

Had we worked the forest, we would have grown after 11 turns and could have whipped the monument then. In those 11 turns we'd have generated 22 hammers plus 30 hammers from the whip, or a total of 52. So for 1 turn more we get 22 hammers more.

Even better would have been to farm one of the grasslands. For comparison sake, if we'd have worked the forest for 8 turns and that farm for 2, we'd have the required food for the whip after the same 10 turns it costs working the 2h tile, but again with a bonus of 8*2+2*1=18 hammers, or more than half an expansive granary... In other words we'd have generated 48 hammers this way as compared to the 30 from working the PH. So working the food is 48/30 or 1.6 times better than working the bare hammers (even ignoring the extra commerce from a riverside farm).

I'm not an expert on food to hammer ratios, but I do remember reading a comment by kossin that even a plain 2f grass tile is better than a PH forest of 3h (makes sense with the 1.6 ratio I just calculated), let alone a 2h tile. I think he even called 3h tiles "junk".

Well, all this to indicate why my aversion to the 2h tile.

EDIT: On the same vein I can't imagine working the 1f2h tiles in Lakamha being better than the FP farm...

i guess there is some "we don't want unhappy citizens" going on... would be better to queue some w/s and work best tiles eventually after the holkan

 

[Mikehendi]

Better yet, chichen could have growed that unused riverside cottage from the cap to a hamlet while growing to size 2 (and whipping the monument)

I believe the rule of thumb is somewhere near 1F = 1.5H = 3C

Agree with OB and scouting the closest unknown land.

In general, Outside the cottaged cap we should be Sir Farm-a-lot and whip whip whip.

 

[Sengir]

Do we need the worker from Lakahma already? I think that, given our inability to chop or mine, I'd prefer another settler over a worker at this point.

EDIT: I notice that Cam has voiced the same question, so basically I agree with him. After the settler we can get a worker out (though I think I'd build that after Warrior > Holkan in the cap, whilst 2-pop-whipping the settler in Lakamha and regrowing on a Granary.

 

[FiveRings]

Hi guys!

Just wanted to say hallo and thank for the nice discussion!

On behalf of those who can't play the BtS: more screenshots would be highly appreciated!

Best of luck!

And I like Sengir's motto, I can't believe I haven't noticed it before!

 

[mlinneak]

lurker's comment:

On behalf of those who can't play the BtS: more screenshots would be highly appreciated!

1 person likes this.

 

[Norvin_Green]

I will make the change to settler next not worker. I was hoping to play yesterday but got called into work so I'm not going to be able to play until Tuesday so long as that's ok.

I'll do my best about taking more screenies but will give advanced warning that I tend to forget once the game starts.

 

[Norvin_Green]

In the hopes of Hinduism infiltrating our lands we ask SB and HC to open borders. They accept.

Move woody3 slowly back home trying to explore and watch for barbs. Mutal is almost done with settler. Whipped granary in Lakahma and started another settler. NW Holkan is wounded - just hitting space bar until healed.

Not much else to report.

Hopefully not too many mistakes.

Statistical overview of empire at 1400 b.c.


Victory Screen:

Spoiler :

Demo:

Spoiler :

Top 5 Cities:

Spoiler :

Making nice with HC and SB:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spotting of HC border:

Spoiler :

Please head south!

Spoiler :

Ahh! So this is what Machu Pichu looks like:

Spoiler :

Mr. “Hulk”an takes out 2 barbs in one turn:

Spoiler :

Victory screen now:

Spoiler :

Demo:

Spoiler :

Top 5 Cities:

Spoiler :

 

[Mikehendi]

Got it.

Haven't read the report yet, will hopefully post a plan later today

 

[FiveRings]

I'll do my best about taking more screenies but will give advanced warning that I tend to forget once the game starts.

We all do, and about a lot of things...Thanks for taking notice and doing the screenshots whenever you remember!

 

[Mikehendi]

^ Next report will have lots of screenshots... My reports tend to have more screenshots then words

I'll try to remember to spoiler them

 

[Mikehendi]

Sort of a plan:

In my turnset 2 settlers will appear, 1 immediately and 1 in 5 turns. Where should we settle?

Some options:

Spoiler :

Red or Yellow dot. It's nice and close and will keep maintenance under control.

I REALLY prefer red dot above yellow. Yellow dot has NO food. Other advantages of red dot:
-On river (+2 health)
- doesn't waste those 2 riverside grasslands (which can be farmed to give the city at least some food)
- 2h city tile
- Gives access to Ivory, AND more importantly
- When we settle the northern fish city, it can immediately use the Ivory tile to build a monument, something that will last FOREVER when it only has it's 1st ring tiles.

I don't see how being on the coast outweighs all that.


Another debated spot is pink dot:

Spoiler :

It's not a bad city. It can borrow the wheat tile, which the capital doesn't really need anyway (especially if we want to generate a GS from the cap now!), since it is better off working the 4f cow + cottaged FP's. . After momnument (sheep) and lighthouse it's decent enough. Later on, we can workshop some tiles for production. Either this one or northern fish one would be ok Moai cities

Alternatively, we could take off towards the jungle:

Spoiler :

But my opinion is that can wait a little longer, since the AI's are very far away. There's almost no danger we lose the spot by waiting.


Plans:

Techwise:
With marble, and no short-term good GPfarm location, teching towards building the Great Library in the capital seems a good move, as it will net us a couple of GS for free. With Marble, it will be easy to produce through 2pop whipping 35h holkans.

Great scientist generation:
I'd like to grow the cap to size 5 and then assign 2 scientists for an academy (which frees up the wheat for pink dot, if we settle that spot). By the time the GS pops, we could be about ready to start on the Glib if we go that way. OR I could keep banking gold so we can run 100% science through academy afterwards. Either is fine.


Thoughts?

 

[vranasm]

edit:hmm scrap it... red dot is fine


Pink dot is fine.

wouldn't move towards jungle.

As I am the next after you I guess I will have to open the save for better looks ;-).

Which direction we aim? building TGL and teching Music for GA?

 

[Norvin_Green]

I'd move pink dot 1W - it nets us 2 grassland and a hill while only giving up whale and it still shares wheat with cap.

Are we NOT looking at ivory/fish anymore?

 

[vranasm]

I'd move pink dot 1W - it nets us 2 grassland and a hill while only giving up whale and it still shares wheat with cap.

Are we NOT looking at ivory/fish anymore?

I somehow agree with mike's logic behind the order of north west cities... plains hill city is stronger production wise, food is similar for the time being (aka until border pops), otoh after the border pop the fish is so much stronger... tough decision ;-)

We have ivory sooner with settling red first (both spots will work grassland forest until monument, but city tile for red is stronger)

 

[Mikehendi]

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