Arabia First Look Video (Saladin)

[Atlas627]

Arabia is not guaranteed a religion. They are guaranteed to always be able to found a religion. The difference is that you will never get the free Prophet if all other religions aren't founded. You may have to put in the effort to get the Prophet after all...

I like the nuance. This Civ looks fun.

My only gripe is that the UU seems not-Arabian, making more sense for Saladin ruling from Cairo. Seems very odd to me that the UU didn't take the Holy War bonus space that would make sense for Arabia, and that there's no trade boost. But maybe there's an inherent trade boost in that you'll have a religion to spread and won't have to waste as much production on religion (so you'll build more Trade Routes)?

 

[j51]

Arabia is not guaranteed a religion. They are guaranteed to always be able to found a religion. The difference is that you will never get the free Prophet if all other religions aren't founded. You may have to put in the effort to get the Prophet after all...

I like the nuance. This Civ looks fun.

My only gripe is that the UU seems not-Arabian, making more sense for Saladin ruling from Cairo. Seems very odd to me that the UU didn't take the Holy War bonus space that would make sense for Arabia, and that there's no trade boost. But maybe there's an inherent trade boost in that you'll have a religion to spread and won't have to waste as much production on religion (so you'll build more Trade Routes)?

I could see them adding a second leader eventually with a trade route bonus.

 

[Paramecium]

I think we should remember how religion works in Civ 6:

1. You have to research Astronomy - now you have Eurekas, if you really want to push that science in the Religion Race (RR), depending on how the different map script's are working, it can be luck laster and you might be forced to invest higher in exploration (+1 scout -> delaying other building tasks).
2a. You have researched Holy Sites (HS) and Stonehenge. Do you have stones anywhere? Yes? -> try to build it (delay other things). No? -> You want to build 1 or even more HS as possible to get the GPP flowing. If well placed, you get more Faith which you will need later (A LOT) (but might compete a lot with Campi). Or you just place the HS anyway to get the GP asap.
2b. Meanwhile in the civic tree, you might get sth like God King, Revelation etc, all pushing your Religion progress but all are needing precious Card Slots
2c. You get a pantheon helping to accumulate yields like faith, gold, gpp, all usefull a GP
3. You get your GP - have an hs or stonehenge - found a religion

Depending on the exact needed values, you might be forced to rush a lot of hs early or use a wildcard slot, or you have to get lucky with stonehenge and natural wonders.
If you dont get lucky, in a lot of cases the campus is competing with the best positions. Arabia can without fear to lose sth place their campi and will still get the the whole faith output with the madrasa!
Arabia doesnt have to care about GPP early on. They can focus on early science and still get a big faith output with the beginning of medieval age (or comes the university earlier or the madrasa?). [By the way the same effect somehow with norway, it get's a huge bonus when the SC kick in ...].
After founding the religion on some point of the game, Arabia just needs one HS to start it's religion and then it can freely build it in all its city which can build that extra district, if placed with some adjacency bonus, even better. The City just seem to be able to build those district (and maybe the shrine and temple first?) and then can easily spam their religion building anywhere to get even more science, faith, culture plus maybe sth else for half the prize ...

And meanwhile you rushed the mamaluke, it is a knight replacement so it doesnt need iron and you can start your nonstopple (will that really be the case?) war for what ever purpose you want to (take out another science or religion monger, try domination, screw the culture victory player).

And obvisiously, it all depends on the difficulty. On lowest the UA is probably useless, on highest it might be even the only possibilty to get a religion anyway (I hope not ...) [maybe without HUGE investments]. And yeah, most beliefs seem very general for me, faith, gold, science, culture seems to be usefull in every case, sure, if I try the fastest SV possible, I might rush to get Wats, but yeah, take it easy with Arabia, have a coffee, sit down in our tent and tell us something new about the world ...

 

[Lordkhan II.]

Wow….
We knew arabia would be faith heavy. But the same time science?

The UA doesn’t work for me. I intend to be faster with my prophet. Like many human player.

But in the hand of the Ai this gets a strong flavor. A civ who is depend to found a religion to function gets a guaranteed prophet. Nice

Also I did see what you did with “the last prophet”. Nice touch there.

No concern with Saladin’s ability or the UB. Very solid

Finally the UU could be easily one of the best. Do we know how much they heal? 10 HP/turn?

Now I am really curious with Russia. Which abilities do you spare until the end?

 

[Hajee]

Arabia is not guaranteed a religion. They are guaranteed to always be able to found a religion. The difference is that you will never get the free Prophet if all other religions aren't founded. You may have to put in the effort to get the Prophet after all...

thats not true:

Say the map supports 7 religions
and on the 6th Prophet creates the 6 religions, then Arabia gets the last remaining Prophet to create a religion if they have not already created one

I mean in the video the extacts words were : "This guarantees Arabia the ability found a religion "

 

[shyPiano]

And Saladin is back, and he looks very different from how he looked in both Civ IV and Civ Rev (which I thought both had a very similar design)
I'm more used to that design, but I like this one too. Firaxis does like to give men really big noses though.

And more Saladin.

And this little bugger was almost missed:

Though I don't like it very much...

As for Arabia itself, it seems really strong, but it doesn't excite me.
I wonder about the UA - if you want the best beliefs (AKA Tithe) for your religion, you won't want to have the last prophet. The more you wait, the less flexible your religion can be. Essentially, if you're going to bet hard on religion (and Arabia seems fitting for such a style of game), wouldn't it be best to discard your UA, leaving you UA-less?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

And Saladin is back, and he looks very different from how he looked in both Civ IV and Civ Rev (which I thought both had a very similar design)
I'm more used to that design, but I like this one too. Firaxis does like to give men really big noses though.

And more Saladin.

And this little bugger was almost missed:

Though I don't like it very much...

As for Arabia itself, it seems really strong, but it doesn't excite me.
I wonder about the UA - if you want the best beliefs (AKA Tithe) for your religion, you won't want to have the last prophet. The more you wait, the less flexible your religion can be. Essentially, if you're going to bet hard on religion (and Arabia seems fitting for such a style of game), wouldn't it be best to discard your UA, leaving you UA-less?

I appreciate your gif-making efforts. Many thanks.

 

[Siptah]

thats not true:

Say the map supports 7 religions
and on the 6th Prophet creates the 6 religions, then Arabia gets the last remaining Prophet to create a religion if they have not already created one

I mean in the video the extacts words were : "This guarantees Arabia the ability found a religion "

Let's assume you play a game with 8 civs / 5 possible religions.
3 civs found a religion, 4 get wiped out before they can found one.
Arabia will never get its free prophet.

Unlikely, but possible.

 

[kaspergm]

I can see the logic behind people worrying that the good beliefs willl be gone if you get to found religion as the last civ, but the civ is coherent in the sense that the extra science, faith and culture you get from your religious building will make it less relevant which particular building you actually do get. Of course, I guess time will show whether it's viable to have a religious focused civ which has as it's specialty that it does not have to focus on religion in early game ... but I guess the key there is early game.

 

[Atlas627]

I could see them adding a second leader eventually with a trade route bonus.

Yeah, I can see that too. Would be odd with the Mameluke, but I'll live.

thats not true:

Say the map supports 7 religions
and on the 6th Prophet creates the 6 religions, then Arabia gets the last remaining Prophet to create a religion if they have not already created one

I mean in the video the extacts words were : "This guarantees Arabia the ability found a religion "

That's exactly what I just said...

If nobody founds the 6th Religion in your example, you don't get your free Prophet. You are guaranteed the *ability to found* a Religion, but you aren't guaranteed to *found* a Religion. You might have to make the Prophet manually anyway.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I wonder about the UA - if you want the best beliefs (AKA Tithe) for your religion, you won't want to have the last prophet. The more you wait, the less flexible your religion can be. Essentially, if you're going to bet hard on religion (and Arabia seems fitting for such a style of game), wouldn't it be best to discard your UA, leaving you UA-less?

Yeah, but I could see it being useful in those very competitive games, at say deity level, where you would normally miss out on a religion completely. The UA guarantees you a religion so you never have to worry about being shut out of the religion game. And in a game where you would normally miss out on getting a religion entirely, it is better to get a religion with lesser beliefs than not getting a religion at all, especially since the other UA gives you lots of extra science and culture from your religious buildings. So just getting any religion will be good for Arabia.

 

[Hajee]

If nobody founds the 6th Religion in your example, you don't get your free Prophet. You are guaranteed the *ability to found* a Religion, but you aren't guaranteed to *found* a Religion. You might have to make the Prophet manually anyway.

That is highly unlikely unless the game is won very quickly. I cant not see a game that goes into the Middle stages not having all religions founded.

It would be next to impossible not for the AI to found religions, thus guaranteed Arabia gets a religion

 

[Siptah]

That is highly unlikely unless the game is won very quickly. I cant not see a game that goes into the Middle stages not having all religions founded.

It would be next to impossible not for the AI to found religions, thus guaranteed Arabia gets a religion

Every GP gets more expensive than the one before. And there are some Renaissance GPs as well. As I said above, if enough players are out of the game until Renaissance, you might have to acquire the GP yourself. I don't believe that the AI won't found all religions at some point if they are still in the game.
Oh, well to my scenario above:
8 players, 5 religions.
3 civs found a religion.
3 are wiped out before they can.
1 is Kongo.
Arabia doesn't get the free GP.

 

[Silverdawn]

Comment by Pete Murray on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/54wg5q/civilization_vi_first_look_arabia/d85hazm?context=3

If you have played Civ before, you understand the importance of synergy. You also understand how valuable counterintuitive synergies are, and how with the right combination of abilities and improvements, you are essentially pursuing multiple strategies, causing your opponents to fall into confusion until you choose to tip your hand and claim the victory you had in mind. If that sentence caused you to smile the thin smile of the genius, then Arabia is your civ.

Some people say science and faith are incompatible. Those people are not Saladin. The Madrassa yields more Science than the University. Your religious buildings are amazingly cheap to build, AND get bonuses to Science, Faith, and Culture based on the rest of your civ. This is the kind of religious building Arabia’s opponents love to construct. Cheap and useful? Yes please! And you get one city closer to a Religious Victory.

This a civ whose religious game is on tier with Spain (and like Spain, will want to play the evangelization game). This is also one of the few civs with direct bonuses to science. From the outset, you’re positioned for two of the victories.

The Mamluk is great, and the free healing is the difference between survival and destruction in those breath-holding situations where maybe you overextended yourself (this is my favorite way to play everything military in every game ever; it is a personal weakness), but at its heart, Arabia is a civ that can defer committing to a victory path until later in the game. Maybe you know which victory you’re going for, but your opponents do not. Until then they have to plan to counter both, and an army divided is already beaten.

 

[Hajee]

Every GP gets more expensive than the one before. And there are some Renaissance GPs as well. As I said above, if enough players are out of the game until Renaissance, you might have to acquire the GP yourself. I don't believe that the AI won't found all religions at some point if they are still in the game.
Oh, well to my scenario above:
8 players, 5 religions.
3 civs found a religion.
3 are wiped out before they can.
1 is Kongo.
Arabia doesn't get the free GP.

Yes if you wanna to get huge "What IFs" and "semantics" then yes maybe. But you can use faith to BUY Great people and gold.

So yes it is way more likely the AI would get faith and gold to buy a Prophet.

religion itself seems easy enough to to found to where it would be highly unlikely to not have all of them filled by middle game

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

And what happens if your great prophet is seized by barbarians or AI enemy before founding a religion? Can you get another one?

 

[Siptah]

Interesting tweet. I didn't think of the ULA like that. I thought it's just for Saladin and Arabia, not attached to the religion itself and thus applies to other civs. Makes them stronger for RV, since Kongo and civs without own religion might want this very powerful religion.

 

[MACKA0ili]

Wow, pete really has the ability to make me want to play as every civ.
He makes it sound like Saladin's playstyle is a bit of like an evil genius at the end there, perfect for me
He just need more handrubbing in his leaderscreen and we're good to go

 

[Seek]

Interesting tweet. I didn't think of the ULA like that. I thought it's just for Saladin and Arabia, not attached to the religion itself and thus applies to other civs. Makes them stronger for RV, since Kongo and civs without own religion might want this very powerful religion.

Yeah, that's huge if it's true (ie, we're interpreting it correctly).

 

[isau]

This does make me wonder whether in a duel game if Arabia gets its Prophet on Turn 1. They'd still need to wait to build a Holy Site to found the religion.

LOL at the hilarity of a duel between Arabia and Kongo.