First, I forgot to say welcome back, Bond.
Originally posted by goodbye_mr_bond
Fine, you have a more immediate knowledge of the matter than most. But you still don't have absolute knowledge of the "whole Muslim world," and that's what I'm taking issue with. This is where propaganda begins, when one person can be allowed to make such a sweeping, '100% true because I was there, and therefore you must believe me' statement. If you want to say, "In my oipnion, the Islamic world wants nothing but the absolute destruction of Israel," fine. But don't imply that that is the absolute truth, please. I may not have visited the Middle East, but I have met enough people in my life to know that there is never 100% support for anything--and certainly not anything so potentially horrendous.
Well, I can't say what every single person thinks, but it's what their
governments state by word and deed.
Do Muslim states utilize propaganda? Most certainly. Does Israel? Let me ask you this question: can you think of one nation on this planet that doesn't use propaganda in one form or another? Don't confuse subtlety with validity.
There is a difference between building support for a postion and dehumanizing a race.
It doesn't take much brilliance to point out that cartoons in which Jews drink human blood are lies; but it does take both open-mindedness and perseverance to examine the lies we may be basing our own philosophies on.
Is such open mindedness seen in such closed societies?
You've been teaching in Japan, have you not?
A relativly open society, yet just 75 years ago it was a military dictatorship where moderates were murdered, was it not?
It is give and take. It is always give and take. Why people lose sight of this very simple point is always beyond me. You seem to imply that give-and-take is the easy option here. It's not easy--it's simply right. What's the alternative, huh? Kill 'em all? Now that's easy...
For you and I, give and take is self evident.
I see nothing of the kind there now.
How can any talks go foward when a suicide bomber kills children, and Israel reponds with Tanks in the streets?
Well, to be honest I've been too busy with school recently to read the latest events in as close detail as they deserve, so I don't know if they were really the same demands and proposals. But one obvious different is this: two years and a hell of a lot of lives have passed since then, not to mention the fact that the Muslim delegates aren't Palestinians, for me to compare the two events directly.
They didn't even attend, it was a farce.
And, to tell you again about propaganda, this is exactly the kind of simplistic view of events that it builds on.
Mark my words, this will be a war, and a lot of people will be killed on both sides, and it will settle nothing.
Again, I'm not sure you mean "the world," right? You mean, "lots of people." ANd you don't really mean "bull" either but "arguable allegations," I'm sure. If that's what you mean, then I agree with you 100%. Let's all just drop the blame-tossing for the time being and end this impasse.
The world refers to the UN, which makes it a habit to condem Israel, and never the PA.
Maybe that's the problem. In my experience, people who don't 'waste time' with semantics are the ones who are most impervious to trying to understand the other side's point of view. There's nothing more "medievalistic" than that, IMHO.
Not at all, I understand it perfectly.
The Jews want peace, won't negociate under the gun, the PA want Israel dead and gone, and will do anything they can to bring that on.
THey are misguided fools, yes--but misguided fools who abhor war. I prefer that kind, personally, than the other variety of misguided fools who have a tendency to explode.
I reserve judgement on whether they abhor war or not, or just abhor Jews.
Objectivity is subjective. But then, that's semantics again--my apologies.
Words can be bandied about all day to no avail.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the best way out of this mess is for both Arafat and Sharon to step down and allow fresher and more productive minds to come together on both sides. Everything else can be resolved later, when the dust is settled. It will take time, strength of character and--yes--give and take. But it can happen.
They both have to want it, and that doesn't seem to be the case.
wow... I always knew, and everyone always to me {even this IQ tester guy, that said I was in the top 2%} that I'm smart, but I never knew experts agreed with me
