Are inquisitors working as intended?

[bonniepbilly]

For the past few versions I had the impression that inquisitors were very inefficient and I switched to using missionaries to convert my own cities. Do you all have a different experience?

 

[Anarcomu]

Inquisitor are only useful if your cities have very strong pressure from other religions :

• One missionary costs 200 faith and add 1000 pressure per spread, and spread 2 times, for a total 1000 pressure per 100 spend faith.
• One inquisitor costs 300 faith and remove half pressure from foreign religions, so a total 1/6th of foreign pressure per 100 spend faith.
• Inquisitors and missionaries are even at 6000 foreign pressure. More than that and inquisitors are better. Less, and missionaries are better.

Wonders and Beliefs that improve missionaries, shift powers towards missionaries, namely :

• Borobudur (+1 spread, +500 pressure per 100 faith => even out at 9000 foreign pressure)
• Hagia Sofia (+250 spread per spread, +250 pressure per 100 faith => even out at 7500 foreign pressure)
• Evangelism (-10% foreign pressure per spread, same per 100 faith => even out at a lot more)

 

[civitasjohn]

I thought inquisitor was going to remove 1,250 pressure of foreign religions?

 

[bonniepbilly]

Inquisitor are only useful if your cities have very strong pressure from other religions :

• One missionary costs 200 faith and add 1000 pressure per spread, and spread 2 times, for a total 1000 pressure per 100 spend faith.
• One inquisitor costs 300 faith and remove half pressure from foreign religions, so a total 1/6th of foreign pressure per 100 spend faith.
• Inquisitors and missionaries are even at 6000 foreign pressure. More than that and inquisitors are better. Less, and missionaries are better.

Wonders and Beliefs that improve missionaries, shift powers towards missionaries, namely :

• Borobudur (+1 spread, +500 pressure per 100 faith => even out at 9000 foreign pressure)
• Hagia Sofia (+250 spread per spread, +250 pressure per 100 faith => even out at 7500 foreign pressure)
• Evangelism (-10% foreign pressure per spread, same per 100 faith => even out at a lot more)

Thanks, super helpful!

 

[Anarcomu]

I linked a little spreadsheet I made to do relevant calculations. Do note that you have to consider Inquisitor and Missionary each time separately, since Inquisitor reduce Foreign Pressure and thus reduce value of next Inquisitor.

The results are summed there :

Spoiler :

Hagia Sofia​	Borobudur​	Mendicacy​	Inquisition​	Even out at Foreign Pressure​
​	​	​	​	6000​
X​	​	​	​	7500​
​	X​	​	​	9000​
X​	X​	​	​	11250​
​	​	X​	​	13953​
X​	​	X​	​	17442​
​	X​	X​	​	48128​
X​	X​	X​	​	60160​
​	​	​	X​	4000​
X​	​	​	X​	5000​
​	X​	​	X​	6000​
X​	X​	​	X​	7500​
​	​	X​	X​	6452​
X​	​	X​	X​	8065​
​	X​	X​	X​	13100​
X​	X​	X​	X​	16376​

 

[hokath]

Yes, Anarcomu's description is how I understand it.
Using the Inquisitor is very often a mistake.
However I would add, having 1 Inquisitor in your Holy City can be important to quickly flip back after Great Prophet attack! Especially if you see India in the game.

 

[Anarcomu]

I didn't mention it, but the Inquisitor also halve efficiency of foreign active spreading. It both halve pressure, and purge. Which mean that enemy Prophets that try to spread to your cities with Inquisitor only halve your pressure instead of removing it entirely.
My spreadsheet is only relevant if the enemy does not try to actively spread to you. If they try, Inquisitors have an additional passive use. Especially stronger if your cities have a strong pressure from your religion, and enemies try to spread through Prophets

 

[bonniepbilly]

Is this for expensed inquisitors, not those stationed in a city?

 

[Anarcomu]

You can station Inquisitor in cities, they halve pressure from active spread. Their efficiency depend on how much your rival try to spread, so it's not possible to make efficient calculation.
This last as long as you keep the Inquisitor, it end when you expend it (as you would think).

My spreadsheet is about active use, expended Inquisitors.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

Seems I have been using inquisitors way too liberally. Im not surprised, The feeling of purging opposing influence is better than just adding more pressure of your own. I mostly use it to get rid of unhappiness due to too many followers of other faith

 

[msw1]

Yes, some of the value of inquisitors is reducing religious unrest, which makes them a bit more valuable than you would think by just looking at the religious pressure numbers.

 

[azum4roll]

Religious unrest is based on the number of citizens not following your religion, so it's the same thing.

You can't have both Mendicancy and Inquisition at the same time though.

 

[Alpharius]

I think it works as intended. Personally, I'm satisfied with the balance in the religion race currently. It's not perfect (never will be) but feels ok at the moment.

Inquisitors: instantly removes half of the built-up pressure from other religions, and passively blocks half from the spread action of rival Missionaries/Prophets when stationed in a city.

IIRC in the past it used to remove 100% pressure from other religions. Currently it's at half, but if people feel it's too weak we can maybe vote to change that number?

 

[Anarcomu]

IIRC in the past it used to remove 100% pressure from other religions. Currently it's at half, but if people feel it's too weak we can maybe vote to change that number?

I heard it was changed because it was way too hard to spread to rival religion with Inquisitor of this strength.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

Yes of course it shouldnt be 100% but I feel 50% is slightly too weak maybe.

 

[azum4roll]

I don't know why people keep wanting to convert founders with missionaries. Regardless of inquisitor strength, they'll declare war on you so you can't keep doing that anyway.

 

[Anarcomu]

I don't know why people keep wanting to convert founders with missionaries. Regardless of inquisitor strength, they'll declare war on you so you can't keep doing that anyway.

• You can use Prophets to quickly convert all their cities. Without a single city following their religion, they can't fight back until they get a Prophet.
• They can't declare war on you whilst you have a truce.
• They will hesitate declaring war on you if you are strong/have allies.
• Non-founder will also use Inquisitor to defend an ally's majority religion.

So, Inquisitor's strength is still relevant. At least in my book.

 

[psparky]

The above analysis of missionary vs inquisitor doesn't go far enough. The end goal is to gain followers and this is based on the ratio of accumulated pressure.

Take a situation where your religion and a foreign religion each have 6000 accumulated pressure. Due to the relative cost and usage of the units, you can use one inquisitor or get three missionary spreads for the same cost. Both result in 3000 swing in pressure. However using missionaries will give a ratio of 9000 to 6000, whilst an inquisitor will give 6000 to 3000. In a city of size 30, missionaries will result in 18-12 follower split but an inquisitor will result in a 20-10 split.

The breakeven point is when you have 3000 accumulated pressure for your own religion. Less than that and missionaries are better, i.e. will result in a higher percentage of followers. Note that the increase might not be enough to actually gain a follower. More than 3000 and inquisitors are better, but be aware that by making the grand total of accumulated pressure smaller, pressure-per-turn will have a bigger effect on how the balance develops over time.

 

[Stalker0]

The above analysis of missionary vs inquisitor doesn't go far enough. The end goal is to gain followers and this is based on the ratio of accumulated pressure.

Take a situation where your religion and a foreign religion each have 6000 accumulated pressure. Due to the relative cost and usage of the units, you can use one inquisitor or get three missionary spreads for the same cost. Both result in 3000 swing in pressure. However using missionaries will give a ratio of 9000 to 6000, whilst an inquisitor will give 6000 to 3000. In a city of size 30, missionaries will result in 18-12 follower split but an inquisitor will result in a 20-10 split.

The breakeven point is when you have 3000 accumulated pressure for your own religion. Less than that and missionaries are better, i.e. will result in a higher percentage of followers. Note that the increase might not be enough to actually gain a follower. More than 3000 and inquisitors are better, but be aware that by making the grand total of accumulated pressure smaller, pressure-per-turn will have a bigger effect on how the balance develops over time.

Agreed, it is not a straight comparison. remove 3k pressure is normally stronger than adding 3k pressure, depending on the curent values.

That said, at the end of the day the inquistor has a purpose that occurs reasonably often in games. There are cities with high enough pressure that an inquisitor is a far more efficient use of faith than pounding it with missionaries. Not always, but enough that the unit has worth.

People might argue if the 50% active spread reduction is too much or too little, but I think the base pressure removal is fine. The key is that neither tool is right all the time, you use the missionaries to convert the small fry, and the inquisitor to take down the big fish.

 

[Nightmare Dusk]

Personally think inquistors are fine and don't need to be touched