are retrograde thrusters OP?

[Lord Shadow]

Both the lifeform scanner and continental surveyor are pretty good for planning purposes and situational awareness. The former's particularly useful if you're going to be leading an offensive campaign against the aliens, whereas the latter comes in handy to gauge how much room you have to expand and how much of a threat arriving factions are to said, ahem, lebensraum. Also for exploration purposes, since you'd know exactly where to best send explorers (or colonists!) across the planet's surface (i.e. deserted islands, not yet inhabited nearby continents, etc.).

 

[Zet]

Both the lifeform scanner and continental surveyor are pretty good for planning purposes and situational awareness. The former's particularly useful if you're going to be leading an offensive campaign against the aliens

It's also very useful to keep your explorers alive. There's always a chance that the explorer will end his turn within 2 tiles of a nest. And you'll have to assume that every alien the explorer encounters is guarding a nearby nest, even if that isn't always the case.

 

[Gort]

If nothing else, the 100 Energy option can be taken by the AI, who presumably know everything about the map anyway.

 

[Khaim]

If nothing else, the 100 Energy option can be taken by the AI, who presumably know everything about the map anyway.

I noticed in one of the LP's that an AI landed with 100g, so they certainly have that as an option. Also, one of the potential balancing factors for the delayed starts is to give multiple choices to civs that land later. For example, the civ that lands on turn 15 might have the Tectonic Scanner and the Reactor, the civ that lands on turn 20 might have two cargo options, etc.

 

[Shafi-is-back]

I'm not sure how one could say that. If you save energy to buy a colonist (which are very expensive to produce by the way) then you are shaving turns off the time that second (or third) city takes to start being productive. Like gunnergoz said, that is 15-20 turns worth of early game energy.

Energy is good but i think 100 doesnt seem to match up to some of the other options. It seems to little when i look at it, maybe 200 would make it a pretty strong choice.

 

[Aeson]

I think the Energy is ok. Maybe a little weak, but it's never going to let you down. Getting the first rush many turns earlier is a pretty big deal.

I like Lifeform Scanner too. It will give you a rough indication of the lay of the land, keep your Explorers alive long enough to reach Purity 1, and then you'll know right where the nests are to go exploit Purity 1 to it's fullest potential. (I really hope they change it though.)

Without Purity 1 it will still be a decent option. You'll need it for longer!

Tectonic Scanner is probably the best one. Mine Titanium right off is a nice bonus if you have it. If you don't have Titanium, Geothermal and/or Oil nearby, it can save you from researching a tech or 3 "too early" in the early game. That's a big bonus. In the case of Geothermal it's basically like being handed the research cost of a N2L tech. Because researching Geophysics without Geothermal is like throwing that research away (at least for as long as it takes you to go acquire Geothermal tiles). Physics and Chemistry are useful in other ways, but you might want to go in other directions at times, especially if you know there's no Titanium/Oil in play already.

 

[aguliondew]

I think lvl 1 purity will change before launch. Energy is the only one that is not worth it. The other cargo give you a longer advantage than fusion reactor. IF fusion reactor was some free energy based tile improvement it would be more worthwhile in the long term like the other cargo. That is what I hope it is changed to.

Continent surveying - easy exploring all game.
Lifeform detector - can find all aliens nest (which tend to be in area with lots of resource)
Tectonic Scanner - can improve and trade mid-game resources early.
Retrograde thrusters - find the best settlement for your capital.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'd prefer fusion reactor stayed at a flat amount. So it doesn't overlap with aristocrats.
They could increase it to 150-250 (depending on balance)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think I recall that there is some kind of trade benefit to Continental Surveyor as well.

 

[Teproc]

Retrograde Thrusters seem very strong, but Continental Surveyor and Tectonic Scanners are on par I think. Maybe even the Pioneering one, the only pretty bad one is the Clinic one I think.

Oh, and I don't know what to think about the Alien Nests thing. It could be better than it looks.

 

[Umbral Reaver]

Does lifeform scanner find new nests after they spawn, or just the original ones?

 

[aguliondew]

I think I recall that there is some kind of trade benefit to Continental Surveyor as well.

It enables you to set up cargo ships to city on the coast, since you see all coasts. Sea based trade yields more than land base trade.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Retrograde Thrusters seem very strong, but Continental Surveyor and Tectonic Scanners are on par I think. Maybe even the Pioneering one, the only pretty bad one is the Clinic one I think.

Oh, and I don't know what to think about the Alien Nests thing. It could be better than it looks.

Your mixing up types

Ships
Retrograde (city placement)
Continent (coastline)
Tectonic (resources)
Fusion (energy)
Life forms (nests)


Cargos
Worker
Soldier
Clinic
Pioneer tech
Population

Clinic does seem bad because there is no benefit for excess health at the start of the game.

 

[Wizard-Bob]

BE is making me appreciate the many ways there are to skin a cat in this game.

Agree 100%. Good times ahead!

 

[Teproc]

Oh you're right, sorry about that.

The energy one seems mediocre, but who knows : gold inthe early game can be quite good, it just doesn't seem like quite enough.

Other than that they seem pretty balanced to me (the ships).

 

[Minor Annoyance]

Even if something was overpowered, there are players who chose to have random options so variety, even if some options are sub optimal are still good to have. I never did random before. In civ 5 there were many Civs with naval UUs, or terrain based abilities so I had to match the civ to the map or feel cheated out of the full experience of that civ. BE gives me more options to adapt to rather than decide everything from the start.

 

[Tomice]

I think I recall that there is some kind of trade benefit to Continental Surveyor as well.

It enables you to set up cargo ships to city on the coast, since you see all coasts. Sea based trade yields more than land base trade.

Combined with the fence upgrade that protects your cargo units this is borderline OP.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Combined with the fence upgrade that protects your cargo units this is borderline OP.

It only protects Trade convoys (land) not Trade Vessels (sea)

But City Connections and Trade units cannot travel through unrevealed tiles (and city connections through water form automatically no tech required)

The disadvantage of water trade routes/city connections is the aliens disrupting it.


[Also, I think that trade routes may have unlimited range (they just need a clear path)]

 

[MadDjinn]

Combined with the fence upgrade that protects your cargo units this is borderline OP.

stack with Polystralia and an Archi map and you're good to go!

 

[KrikkitTwo]

stack with Polystralia and an Archi map and you're good to go!

MadDjinn
Does the fence upgrade protect sea units (contrary to its description)?

and
Are trade routes unlimited range (just have to find a path)?