with the new console version... itll be longer before we see Civ5. I was hoping Civ5 would be out by 2010, but after the announcement of the consoles, I'm sure itll be out in 2011 or 2012. I just hope they make it better. Civ4 was half completed game, Warlords finished the game, then BtS came out, and it really seems only half done, needs some major reworking. I was hoping that if they do Civ5 they make a mix between Civ3 and Civ4. I liked Civ3's map making abilities better, I liked the borders better, I also liked that other units cant pile where you are. But if they did civ5 I wouldnt be satisfied completely unless they mixed a little bit of Call To Power ideas in there. Yes I know different companies and such, but, CTP had many ideas that made other civ games feel lacking.