Are you Politically Correct?

[AmazonQueen]

Its a pretty dubious foot in the door technique to me. If someone is prepared to lie about something as unimportant and easily verifiable on meeting as their height to get a date what else are they going to lie about?

 

[jarred!]

This is the trap, though, because while it's easier to swipe on your phone than go to a bar, if you're of "average" attractiveness you will need to swipe, on average, 114 times to get a match (and God only knows how many matches you'll need to actually meet up with someone).

How many bars until I find one dimly enough lit to score a match?

Its a pretty dubious foot in the door technique to me. If someone is prepared to lie about something as unimportant and easily verifiable on meeting as their height to get a date what else are they going to lie about?

Whatever will get someone else in their bed.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Whatever will get someone else in their bed.

When I was in the "willing to lie to get laid" stage I found that trivial lying was really pointless. If you just wanna get laid go with the BIG lie, it's much more efficient. When I was a young sailor stationed just north of Chicago I cultivated a 'new in town Stanford grad who chose a Chicago firm from among the fierce competitors' persona when I rode the train into the city on Friday afternoons. I never failed to spend the weekend with some hottie that was looking to hitch her wagon to a rising star, despite the fact that if I had failed I'd have ended up sleeping at the State Street Mission because I had basically no money.

 

[jarred!]

Maybe it's more like "if she thinks this is 6ft, maybe she'll think this is 6in a foot!"

 

[Narz]

I spent a period of a little more than a year trying desperately to use them for casual sex and found enormous numbers of women specifying "no hookups" (ie no casual sex) on their profiles, so....

Tinder is a huge time sink. Women on there are incredibly flaky.

In Latin America on the other hand it's basically just swipe for sex (at least for me & prolly for you, iirc you're a tall white American). I'm pretty much never going to put any effort into an American woman ever again, why would I when I can spend $200 on a flight & meet a Latina who's willing to match my energy/investments levels.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Facts are not inviolate.

It is a fact that quoted is wrong.

especially if the fact is relying on outdated or misinformed data

Assertions that do this are not facts. Facts are proven in empirical reality. If something doesn't meet that standard, it isn't a fact. If it's known not to meet that standard, it's outright misinformation.

Also, "fat" is a very loaded phrase that's been subject to a lot of revision over the years. 2 metres tall is an accepted standard unit of measurement that has remained the same. I don't want to get into fatness as a topic, I'm using it as something similar to pronouns - where the noun, or factual adjective, has been taken over by using it to disrespect others.

Replace "fat" with "obese" (which has a proper medical definition) and you get the same outcome. People will still feel bad if it's acknowledged that they're obese despite that this is a statement of objective fact on par with measured height...and despite that it's actually possible to control it for most people (in contrast to height).

Really? I never knew that. Of course I have not clue one why anyone would bother lying on a dating app. I want to date someone who is interested in me, not someone who is interested in some misrepresentation of me.

Similar reasoning to makeup or wearing stuff underneath clothing to alter apparent body shape. Statistically it's a significant disadvantage to be short.

Its a pretty dubious foot in the door technique to me. If someone is prepared to lie about something as unimportant and easily verifiable on meeting as their height to get a date what else are they going to lie about?

A very reasonable question.

 

[Akka]

Yes, you would be factually wrong...and what business of anyone else's would that be?

I was simply proving that the "self-definition has no limit" was false. If one doesn't care about the validity of an argument or the truth of a statement, then obviously any reasoning and any argument are pointless, but then what's the point of discussing about them ?

@Akka

You're taking my examples and removing the context; my examples are intended for their stated context. The context of not respecting someone's pronouns is different to being judged by presumably homophobic relatives for coming out. The people being insensitive in each scenario is different.

That's what I don't think you're getting. I can't guess at your intent, so I won't. But these benign examples of height, and so on . . . they're not relevant here. Context matters. I don't even know what you're getting at with moral judgement not being the same as "being made to feel bad". I think that point has been lost between us somewhere.

You realize that the whole point of changing the context and seeing the argument crumble is precisely to point that the argument is inconsistent ?
If your argument only work for one specific context and cease to work as soon as any variable change, then where does its legitimacy is supposed to come from ?
I understand that context matters, but consistency also does, and I fail to see any compelling argumentation that would only work when convenient.

If it's okay to get judged badly when having a specific opinion that you dislike, but then it's not okay to be judged badly if you don't like the opinions of the people making the judgement, then that's a pretty literal example of what I was initially pointing : "either you agree with me or you're a jerk".

Calling someone fat by itself has more ramifications than calling someone tall. Because one is historically used as a slur and has become inescapably intertwined with that usage. The other has not.

Also, "fat" is a very loaded phrase that's been subject to a lot of revision over the years. 2 metres tall is an accepted standard unit of measurement that has remained the same. I don't want to get into fatness as a topic, I'm using it as something similar to pronouns - where the noun, or factual adjective, has been taken over by using it to disrespect others.

You say I ignore the context, but to me it sounds like you're so focused on the context you ignore the principle. I'm illustrating that your reasoning doesn't work, and you try to dismiss any counter-example showing the inconsistency as "the context isn't the same". It only goes so far before it starts sounding like a cop-out.

 

[Lexicus]

You say I ignore the context, but to me it sounds like you're so focused on the context you ignore the principle. I'm illustrating that your reasoning doesn't work, and you try to dismiss any counter-example showing the inconsistency as "the context isn't the same". It only goes so far before it starts sounding like a cop-out.

Well this is a nice demonstration of the difference between essentialist and constructionist thinking...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Statistically it's a significant disadvantage to be short.

Tough luck for short people. But what does that have to do with lying about it?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Tough luck for short people. But what does that have to do with lying about it?

That there's some incentive to do it, similar to the incentive for makeup or wearing things that hide obesity.

I'm not condoning it obviously, and I generally agree with your assessment of expected utility on this matter. But I can at least see why people do it.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Lying about height is a big red flag to me

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Lying about height is a big red flag to me

Lying about anything (aside from obvious jokes) should be a big red flag. I get why people do it, but that doesn't automatically mean it's defensible.

 

[rah]

Yeah, lying up front doesn't bode well moving forward.

 

[CKS]

Its a pretty dubious foot in the door technique to me. If someone is prepared to lie about something as unimportant and easily verifiable on meeting as their height to get a date what else are they going to lie about?

I think a lot of people just don't think height is a real issue, or that people will know. In high school, 35 years ago, my cousins dated a lot of guys, all of whom claimed to be 6'2" but were in fact significantly shorter than I was (close to 6'0"). They were probably in the 5'9"-5'10" range, but they were still 6-8 inches taller than my cousins, and I don't think those cousins ever realized that the boys were exaggerating their heights.

 

[Gorbles]

Well this is a nice demonstration of the difference between essentialist and constructionist thinking...

Yeah, pretty much. Besides, there's no debate when there's an outright refusal to meet with the actual topic, instead of imposing what is essentially their own philosophical interpretation to another person's arguments.

I'll just go back to pointing out poor defenses of deadnaming and refusing to respect peoples' pronouns. Less chance of getting bogged down in something I don't actually have any desire to engage in (or way of working through, due to hyperfixation of specific interpreted linguistics). Heaven knows, if someone thinks a fact is some empirical thing without accepting the nuance of reality and how people interpret these things, I ain't got a way of changing that.

And I definitely don't have a way to change someone's mind if they keep repeating that intentionally getting someones' pronouns wrong is some kind of simple opinion. What's the opposite of an argument to absurdity? There will be a phrase for it, I just don't know it off of the top of my head.

EDIT

To be fair it's probably just applying a red herring to make it seem ridiculous. There's no complicated logic at play here, as much as I've already overthought this.

"self ID in the context of gender recognition has no limits"

"but as you just mentioned self ID by itself I'm going to self identify as being 2 metres tall, gotcha!"

Removal of context, plus some kind of inverted appeal to absurdity. Definitely not something worth wasting my time on any further.

EDITEDIT

My expanding on this post should not be taken as implicit agreement that because I'm agreeing with Lexicus, Lexicus is therefore agreeing with me. I've added a "besides" to make this more obvious. It's a bit tedious, these semantic games.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I think a lot of people just don't think height is a real issue, or that people will know. In high school, 35 years ago, my cousins dated a lot of guys, all of whom claimed to be 6'2" but were in fact significantly shorter than I was (close to 6'0"). They were probably in the 5'9"-5'10" range, but they were still 6-8 inches taller than my cousins, and I don't think those cousins ever realized that the boys were exaggerating their heights.

I've dated a few guys who claimed to be 6' and turned out to be shorter than me. Its not impressive.
I can understand someone lying about liking Mongolian food or modern dance if thats suggested for a first date. Thats a pretty harmless foot in the door.

edit: I went to a superhero film for a first date once. I hate superhero films.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Lying about anything (aside from obvious jokes) should be a big red flag. I get why people do it, but that doesn't automatically mean it's defensible.

I get why people lie, generally, I just don't get why they tell lies that have a shelf life shorter than the time frame of the objective. I mean, if you're 5-11 and claim six feet that's one thing because it's not likely your date will show up with a tape measure, but if you're 5-9 and claiming six feet your chances of getting laid before you get caught seem pretty slim.

 

[Lexicus]

I get why people lie, generally, I just don't get why they tell lies that have a shelf life shorter than the time frame of the objective.

There is a certain thrill that comes with bringing off a successful deception. Back in freshman year of college my friend used to tell people that his name was Francisco and he was a lecturer from Princeton, for no particular reason, just that telling ridiculous lies to strangers was funny.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

There is a certain thrill that comes with bringing off a successful deception. Back in freshman year of college my friend used to tell people that his name was Francisco and he was a lecturer from Princeton, for no particular reason, just that telling ridiculous lies to strangers was funny.

Key word; successful. I already admitted my own 'lie to get laid' history so I obviously am not ignoring the general idea of deception. I just don't see the value in getting caught at it.

 

[Gorbles]

Arrogance or desperation, though I'd imagine not usually at the same time. Arrogance weathers both the idea of getting caught, and the actual consequences of getting caught, and desperation is, well, desperation.