Arioch's Analyst Thread

[Caeserportugal]

Where did you get those screenshots Mercade? Are you betatesing the game?

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

No, we are on the beach with inna in a place not far from you ! all screens available at jeuxvideo.fr, please follow the link I posted earlier.

 

[Mercade]

Where did you get those screenshots Mercade? Are you betatesing the game?

I'm affaid not. Same source where SniperRabbit got his, a French preview by Jeuxvideo.fr.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Actually, that's just another way of phrasing what we've know for a while: domination wins are achieved by conquering all of your rivals' capitals.

But that is not what the victory screen says - it gives no indication that the player conquered those capitals, only that the civs had lost theirs - the implication is very different.

The way it is worded seems to indicate that if one civ conquers every other capital but yours, then you you would only have to conquer theirs - since every other civ will have lost their capital.

 

[jtb47]

Also, in the victory condition screen we see 12 players and 164 cities in the game (and modern era not reached). That's about the amount you'd expect on huge maps in civ4, being one further confirmation that map sizes will be similar.

imho 164 stands for the score coming from the player's cities...

 

[neev]

The way it is worded seems to indicate that if one civ conquers every other capital but yours, then you you would only have to conquer theirs - since every other civ will have lost their capital.

That's how I understand it as well, the way it is worded, and it obviously suck. This mechanism is however so far away from a domination/conquest victory that I can believe it is the case.
I really think you have to control all capitals.

 

[Tomice]

The military victory and the nature of capitals are still very mysterious to me. Thanks for the interesting thought, Thyrwyn!

Judging from Azazells info, a civ might have 2 different capitals with different meaning:

If the original capital is conquered, there doesn't seem to be a way to fully replace it. BUT the civ seems to stay in the game and still needs a capital for trade routes etc.

Maybe the victory condition is precisely: " Be the only civ that still holds the city it originated from!".

If I understood Azazell right, a civ that lost it's original capital might still

a) recapture it
b) win by social or diplomatic means

The thing unclear is the science victory. can the SS parts also be transported to the "replacement" capital?

 

[Caeserportugal]

So that means there could be two capitals? the one of course the center from where the civ originated and another capital which could be a tranding one.

 

[Thyrwyn]

From screenshot #15:

Check out the benefit Helsinki (Maritime) grants to its ally: +2 food in capital, +1 everywhere else; all resources they collect.

That is pretty significant.

 

[hk2717]

Ah, yes. It must be the customs house. In the strategic view of the same city, it's got 4 gold on the tile. But I am willing to assume that it gives 5 gold (just as the academy gives 5 science). I think that 4 is the max they show in the strategic view being 4 or more.

Edit: Oh, sorry I didn't see that you are talking about the strategic view. But is there such a screenshot of strategic view displaying the tile output? I didn't find any.

 

[Tomice]

So that means there could be two capitals? the one of course the center from where the civ originated and another capital which could be a tranding one.

I assume so: We have reason to believe that a civ without (original) capital stays in the game, but not giving it another for the calculation of trade routes and other features would cripple the civ utterly.

There are several boni from SPs dependent on the capital when I remember right, there's Rome's special ability, there is the scientific victory,...

In the victory conditions screen several civs have lost their capital. I can't imagine they all suffer such a massive penalty.

 

[Mercade]

Edit: Oh, sorry I didn't see that you are talking about the strategic view. But is there such a screenshot of strategic view displaying the tile output? I didn't find any.

Sorry, I may have incorrectly called it the strategic view. I was referring to this screenshot, that indeed doesn't show the strategic view, but a rather zoomed out world map. I think in this view it won't show more than 4 gold (or 4 anything) regardless of the total number.

 

[Hawkwood]

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Something I noticed regarding these images. In the screenshot where the policies are locked, the player has 2042 culture and require 7470 culture to adopt a new policy. In the screenshot where they aren't locked however, the player has 1301 culture and require 1265 culture to adopt a new policy.

 

[Mercade]

Something I noticed regarding these images. In the screenshot where the policies are locked, the player has 2042 culture and require 7470 culture to adopt a new policy. In the screenshot where they aren't locked however, the player has 1301 culture and require 1265 culture to adopt a new policy.

So what's your point? The first pictures are not taken at the same time. The first picture is from turn 322 and the second from turn 202 (possibly earlier in the same game). In the second picture you see that two policy trees are not available to the player yet since he apparently doesn't have the right tech.

 

[The_J]

The first one has 13 policies activated, the second only 6. The value sure increases with the activated policies.

Also don't forget: If you have more cities, the policies will cost more.

 

[Hamil]

Look at the amount of cities. In the first screenshot, the player has dozens of cities, in the second just two hand full. Hm, maybe someone can try to extrapolate the growthrate of culture needed

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

So what's your point? The first pictures are not taken at the same time. The first picture is from turn 322 and the second from turn 202 (possibly earlier in the same game). In the second picture you see that two policy trees are not available to the player yet since he apparently doesn't have the right tech.

If you read some of my previous posts you got it all answered, why do you keep trying to find an explanation when it's out already.

 

[Caeserportugal]

I think the Planned economy will be the best policy for big empires.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

Hi, the J ! too bad Cologne is too far away for me. According to an earlier australian preview, the social policies cost 30 % more with each city. That means the optimum for number of cities is 4 and the French get the most out of it. Basically, four cities is up to 82% more effective than a single city and it drops after that point.

@C~p~ : It's twice as strong for India, actually !

 

[Mercade]

If you read some of my previous posts you got it all answered, why do you keep trying to find an explanation when it's out already.

Ah, Snipperrabbit, I do read your posts with great care. The fact that the policies aren't shown because of insufficient culture had escaped me for a moment. Mea culpa.

And because of that, I couldn't understand the point that Hawkwood was trying to make. The relevance of the observation, or the implied question, was not clear to me.