One Frigate had as many cannon on board as a whole army. At the Battle of Blenheim, one of the major late Renaissance battles in Europe, the English-Dutch army had 66 cannon and 52,000 men, the other side, an alliance between France and Bavaria, had 90 cannon and 56,000 men. In the same war (the War of the Spanish Succession), there was a minor battle when the English tried to capture the island of Tenerife with a force of 13 ships with 800 cannon.
Arioch's Analyst Thread
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One Frigate had as many cannon on board as a whole army. At the Battle of Blenheim, one of the major late Renaissance battles in Europe, the English-Dutch army had 66 cannon and 52,000 men, the other side, an alliance between France and Bavaria, had 90 cannon and 56,000 men. In the same war (the War of the Spanish Succession), there was a minor battle when the English tried to capture the island of Tenerife with a force of 13 ships with 800 cannon.
PinkHammurabi
Warlord
The only issue here is that Frigates require Iron due to their cannon use, but Cannons don't require Iron.
The only issue here is that Frigates require Iron due to their cannon use, but Cannons don't require Iron.
That's modeled so becasue Frigates have so many more cannon that a Cannon unit. Pikemen don't need iron either where Longswordsmen do, even though pikes use iron as well.
snipperrabbit!!
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Crossbowmen defends the manufactory in case no one noticed.
PinkHammurabi
Warlord
I'm being somewhat facetious, and it's still a very funny concept, that's all.
They got those pics from the Dutch "Tweakers.net" preview.
All the industrial-era ships require oil, including the destroyer. You'll need destroyers because battleships are vulnerable to submarines. There has not yet been any example of a single unit that requires more than one point of a resource; you gotta figure if the Giant Death Robot doesn't, nothing will.Lord Olleus said:
FYI, Geo... I didn't say that. You quoted some text there from Lord Olleus and misattributed it to me.GeoModder said:
Since a Cannon unit has nearly twice the ranged strength of a Frigate (26 vs. 15), I don't buy the argument that a Frigate has more cannons than a Cannon unit. And the difference in resource requirements between a Pikeman and a Longswordsman (or a Spearman and a Swordsman) is mainly in the armor, not the weaponry.Calouste said:
Considerations of realism aside, I just don't see the gameplay reason for not having Cannon require resources. There is no other Renaissance era competition for Iron except Frigates. The suggestion that a Forge or Workshop might require Iron is interesting speculation, but those are Medieval era buildings.
edit: I managed to catch the rollover for that shield promotion that every land unit seems to have.
Looks like it is indeed the Embarkation promotion that allows units to embark on water, as some have speculated. I do wonder how civilian units can get it, though... I've seen it on a Worker and a Great Engineer.
GeoModder
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PinkHammurabi
Warlord
Maybe they have it by default?
Many don't have it.
Boris Godunov
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I'm thinking you have to develop a certain technology (Optics has been mentioned) before your units are given the Embarkation upgrade.
Yes, but then again, how often would you see a Frigate firing all of its broadsides at once?
Especially if they're bombarding a shoreline, which is the only thing that necessitates equivalence between naval and land unit strength (the measure, that is, not the units' strengths themselves).PinkHammurabi
Warlord
Well, perhaps this is due to different builds? Maybe by launch they will?
Clearly I have no idea but I don't see a more convincing alternative.
I wonder why all industrial era ships require oil. It's not as if the world went from Coal Burning Ironclads to Bunker C burning battleships.
Coal fired Destroyers and dreadnaughts would be perfectly reasonable.
I mean, I understand why they make it all oil instead of some oil and some coal, but I'd think given the multi-fuel nature of early navys that you could justify ships like destroyers as not requiring the resource at all.
Coal fired Destroyers and dreadnaughts would be perfectly reasonable.
I mean, I understand why they make it all oil instead of some oil and some coal, but I'd think given the multi-fuel nature of early navys that you could justify ships like destroyers as not requiring the resource at all.
Ahriman
Tyrant
I think the ironclad unit is designed to represent all coal-powered naval units, including Dreadnoughts. Better than any sailing ship, but totally outclassed by oil-burning ships.
Many units have to represent very large swathes of military history.
Many units have to represent very large swathes of military history.
Well, first of all, consider the time scale we're talking about. Facing is irrelevant in Civilization, so there's no reason the Frigate can't pivot and fire all of its guns in a turn that lasts more than a year.
But leaving that aside, if a land cannon unit has twice the firepower of a frigate, and the frigate's firepower is limited by only being able to fire half its guns at once, then at best the frigate has the same number of guns as the land battery. You're still not making a very convincing argument that a frigate's guns should require Iron and a cannon regiment's guns shouldn't.
the hrej.cz preview mentioned that after optic, you settlers are free to sail on water.
Tomice
Passionate Smart-Ass
So we can't settle on islands at all before optics? Weird!!!
What about England and Ireland? All the mediterrenean islands? Indonesia? They were all populated much earlier!
Maybe they mean ocean travel?
What about England and Ireland? All the mediterrenean islands? Indonesia? They were all populated much earlier!
Maybe they mean ocean travel?
Ahriman
Tyrant
Thats a good point; is there a distinction between crossing ocean tiles vs coast tiles?
Or is optics needed for both?
Or is optics needed for both?
You'd assume it would be Sailing for Coastal, Optics for Sea and Navigation for Ocean travel.
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