ART-N.E.S.: Arthurian Never Ending Story

[uknemesis]

Arthur is attacking no one, unless they invade one of the provinces he claims.

Don't worry, Merlin(I think that would be an appropriate title for the game's moderator, Troquelet), the kingdom of London, or Dumnonia as it is officially known, doesn't like bullies, and will do everything in it's power to stop them.

People of Britain, don't you see? The Saxon hordes are coming! We must not pick on the weak, but join forces to repel these invaders when they come!

And to the Saxons, Arthur will not apoligise to any barbarians.

If they want him, they know where to find him, and he will be ready.

Anyway Merlin, I mean if there is a castle there, and it is your capital, then surely your militia would be well equipped enough to defeat one knight?

I am just concerned about this as most of us have left our capitals undefended in this first go.

Arthur

 

[uknemesis]

One final thought, Merlin.

Possibly a small empire defence bonus could help(a smaller nation would have a better trained army after all).

Possibly like so:

Provinces of attacker- Provinces of defender*100=defence bonus

How's that? Cause then it means that larger nations can get a minus defence bonus when facing smaller nations, which would be realistic as a large nation has much longer borders to defend.

Arthur

 

[The Troquelet]

DISPATCH FROM MERLIN (thanks for the idea!)

Some people have been thinking of attacking territories unoccupied by Knights! Tsk, tsk! Bad! I'm not naming names (and it's not uknemesis, at least not yet!) But the answer to their questions are, IF a Knight is trained in the Realm, or a Knight moves to the Realm, those Knights WILL fight - IE, they WON'T be too late to stop invaders! So if someone wanted to attack for example Nottingham, they WOULD fight any Knights starting in Nottingham and any Knights MOVING to Nottingham.

Regarding militia, these are generally untrained swordsmen who are no match for swordsmen on horse, or "Knights". Also, IF there are also Knights in a Realm, the militia see no need to act to defend it, so it's either Knights OR militia.

Now then, a militia in an empty Realm is probably no good even against one Knight. But it MIGHT not be such a risk to leave a militia alone in a Castle where they might defeat one Knight. In your Capital they might do the same, and a militia guarding your Capital's Castle might defeat AT MOST 2 Knights.

Now a Knight alone is defeatable by 2-4 Knights depending on the roll of the dice. A Knight defending a Castle needs from 3-6 though!

So leaving your Militia alone in your Capital's castle is ABOUT the equivalent of 1 Knight, everywhere else it's much (1/2) less.

Merlin applauds the idea of smaller nations being tougher. We know that the smallest nations (like the Orkneys from which Gawaine comes) are the toughest customers!

Also, don't forget that your people hate bullies and will reward you accordingly on the Happiness Meter.

BUT! The game will reward strategy, and it will reward force. So small nations, don't think you're getting a free ride. You might protect yourself with alliances.

Also, IF a smaller nation is entirely defeated, YES it DOES disappear from the board and the player is out (though I may let him return as a rebel leader someplace). So again, protect yourselves however you can!

I think I made a few mess-ups with the map giving some nations too much power and if I see things getting REALLY out of hand, a few timely droughts may hit!

But again, I'm not taking the weaker nations' side, and if you win a fair fight I won't skew the results. The dice decide all!

 

[The Troquelet]

I've been thinking a lot about this NES lately, and I think I've discovered a problem (still in search of the "perfect" Nes - ha! this is already my 3rd Nes!)

The NES is based on the idea of land of course (one of the goals of the game is to establish as large and grand an empire as possible!) So the problem is: how do you keep the NES fair (so nobody grows too large) but still exciting (so that people don't think the moderator is squashing the leader). I thought that making land of different value could solve that, because other methods don't seem to work too well. (Even in UKNES, probably the largest NES to date, after 20 pages of story the only event that has really changed the map is the conquest of a neutral nation, South Africa.)

The problem is, the land-value system doesn't seemt to work either! Take this example: we have two nations, Nation A and Nation B, in which Nation A has a salary of 20 Gold per turn and Nation B has a salary of 19 Gold. Now if these 2 nations are fighting, eventually chance will favor Nation A since he can hire slightly more Knights. This will enable him to have more Knights who survive battle and thus he conquers more territory. The situation escalates because each turn Nation A has a larger and larger chance of conquering MORE territory and thus getting a larger salary. Eventually, Nation A conquers all of Nation B even though they SEEMED equal.

I thought a solution to this problem could be the Happiness Meter which would make larger nations more unhappy. But of course, a larger nation has a larger salary to spend on Jesters, so happiness is no obstacle.

HOW can I solve this problem? Making some land more valuable than other land is a good idea (and hasn't really been done before I think) but in the end it works pretty badly.

I really don't want to abandon this NES because the Arthurian age is such a good RP device!

Hmmm..

 

[uknemesis]

I think this one is pretty fair. With the smaller nation having the advantage in attack and defence(if you're using my rule for it) then as the other nation grows larger, the more susceptible to counter attacks it will be.

Also, how about lowering land values to just 1 2 or 3? This makes them less than the knights which can defend them, making a nation which has just conquered a territory have to think twice about how he can defend it now.

Nemesis

 

[IceEye]

I don´t think you should make smaller nations knights tougher. That is so unfair. And the reason I am taking 6 territorys instead of 7 is just cuss of happiness. If I take 1 extra territory my happines goes down but I only get 2 extra gold, not enough for a jester. Let´s leave it as it is and see how it works out!

 

[uknemesis]

TO THE KINGS OF BRITAIN

Do you not see the enemy on the horizon? I have had contact with the kingdoms of Brittany, and they tell me the Saxons have released the pressure upon the Franks, which allows the Franks to overrun our Britanny friends.

So why have the Saxons halted the pressure upon the Franks? Isn't it obvious? They wish to have an island of their own.

That island is Britain!

So Kings of Britain, please join me in signing a treaty in which all wars will be forgotten should an outside invader come, and that we shall only resume our petty conflicts once they have been driven back into the sea.

I do not wish to fight the Saxons alone, but if that is what it takes, then I shall.

And King Arthur of Camelot has never been beaten in battle!

Arthur

 

[Erik Mesoy]

A treaty in which all wars will be forgotten should an outside invader come, and that we shall only resume our petty conflicts once they have been driven back into the sea.

I, King Genorad the Kind, do express my desire to sign this treaty. However, I will not sign unless other kings also express their wishes, as I fear being being attacked by those who refuse to sign this pact.

 

[wilboman]

Well, I've already signed the treaty, so...

 

[uknemesis]

I add to the pact the clause that any nation who doesn't sign it will be considered an ally of the outside invader, and extra alliance troops will defend the borders with these and with the invading enemy(we'll send troops to help each other during the invasion).

If that nation should attack one in the pact, then they will be invaded by the alliance, even if the outside invader is dead.

Once the invader has been defeated, all troops are to return to their own nations before our wars can begin once more, so that no nation uses it as an advantage to attack another. If another nation uses troops that he sent to defend against the invader to take a province from the person he sent them to, then he will be declared an honourless enemy, an enemy of all.

Arthur

 

[The Troquelet]

The Saxons DENY all allegations of the barbarian King Arthur, citing again their unwillingness to cross the mud puddle that is the English Channel merely to catch pneumonia in your little, miserable rock.

However, they warn that further insults will NOT be tolerated. Peace can exist between the insular barbarians and the glorious Saxons, but right now that peace is in the hands of the King Arthur. If you continue to listen to his libel, Saxony will have no choice but to exradite him for trial.

Peace go with you.

----------------

DISPATCH FROM MERLIN
Sure, let's see how it goes like IceEye suggested!

Anyway, I have orders from Erik, IceEye, Uknemesis, and Dexter, so you know who you are!

 

[uknemesis]

Troq, but I suggest that if you make one like this ever again that you make the provinces worth less that the knights that defend them, forcing a nation to think twice before attacking a rich province, cause how will he defend it?

Also perhaps another value, food, could reduce the number of knights etc. Perhaps if each knight eats one food per turn, and so does one galley and one jester, you will have to make sure you also take food rich provinces(whereas cash rich ones will be food scarce).

Just some ideas.

Nemesis

 

[The Troquelet]

Yes, I have been tossing around a few ideas, UK. Among them:

How foolish to have Galleys when we're playing an island civ! Now if we included Ireland and Brittany that would include the players who wanted to join but couldn't, and would also make naval diplomacy more important.

I don't really follow your logic about the province values (probably because I haven't had my coffee yet!) could you explain please?

Right now I am torn between two different ways of making income:

1. The one you see right now. Each Realm generates coins, coins pay Knights or Jesters, and the balance is stored in your Treasury.

2. Each Realm generates FOOD. The limit on how many Knights you can have is how many food you have: for example a 3 Food Realm can support 3 Knights. There isn't any money, and you can also use spare food to hire Jesters. Of course surplus food isn't stored in a Treasury anywhere (you wouldn't have surplus food anyway unless you agreed to disarm or something). And if you lose food through cnquest of a realm some of your Knights starve.

Also, I'm wondering about the role of castles. They seemed a good idea, but they are SO expensive that only the rich can buy them, and besides it seems more cost-effective to just hire 2 Knights.

 

[IceEye]

It´s not too late too include Ireland. Make about 10 areas and another 2 peeps can join.

 

[uknemesis]

For the province values, I'll give you an example:

Nation A has three knights in Realm 1. He invades Realm 2, which is held by Nation B, with all 3. He loses 2 taking the realm.

Nation B has two knights ready to counter-attack, but with Realm 2 worth less than the cost of a knight, Nation A can't buy a knight to defend Realm 2 with just that realm's worth; they also have to divert funds from elsewhere.

It's a minor adjustment, but it makes players think twice about how they will hold land they have taken.

Also, I think a mix of gold and food is better. It means that a nation must hold food rich provinces and gold rich ones.

ie; say that Realm 1 was worth 3 gold and 1 food, and Realm 2 was worth 1 gold and 3 food.

The 4 gold combined would allow the nation to buy one knight. It would be able to build 1 per turn, until it has a maximum of 4 knights.

Also, galleys are a good idea, as it forces people to defend their coasts, and also provides a way to fight invaders. Dumnonia will buy a fleet of three in a few turns.

Castles should come with a unit of spearmen in them, explained below.

Capitals shouldn't have any advantage - you want a strong capital, build a castle.

Also, having knights with can only attack, and spearmen which can only defend, would make it slightly more defensive, as you can make spearmen 3 gold, and knights 5. This means a nation would have to have knights to attack, and spearmen to defend.

If you are building up to attack, you need spearmen to defend your knights, otherwise an attack by enemy knights, however small, if you don't have spearmen would kill all of your knights.

Also leave castles at 7 gold, and their garrison can't move from them, but takes up no food.

Spearmen and knights both take 1 food, which puts a limit on the number you can have. Galleys would also take up food if you have them.

How's that?

Nemesis

 

[Erik Mesoy]

*anyone who does not sign the pact will be considered an enemy of the outside invaders*
EEP!

I am signing that treaty. Ok, 3 nations in the pact...

 

[uknemesis]

Oh and Troq, when's the next map update?

 

[IceEye]

I will sign the pact.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

The next map update is when everyone has submitted their orders. SO- submit your orders!

Then Troq will update the map.

 

[uknemesis]

I've submitted mine already.

I'm just wondering who hasn't, so we can all badger and nag them into doing so

Nemesis