Art of the Possible
- Thread starter EQandcivfanatic
- Start date
To quote Kelly's Heroes:
"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? "
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
Oddball, ah the roles Donald Sutherland would land in those times...
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
The CSA Mobilizes.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Isn't EQ giving out an one-week expansion? Which also ruins all the plans for "war just before orders lock". And brings us to, ah, yes, square one...
Spain mobilises.
Let the games begin, ey?
Spain mobilises.
Let the games begin, ey?
TheLastJacobite
No Commies
OOC: A blockade by definition is the use of military force to bar the import or export of any and all goods from a country.
The Ft Lauderdale nations are imposing sanctions, thereby increasing the duties and tariffs of French and British goods in their respective nations, thereby increasing the price while reducing profits. They are not preventing you from selling anything anywhere, nor have the enacted an embargo which would bar any and all importation or exportation of your goods into their nations.
In an RL example, Hydra is Walmart and Target, the opposition are state governors. Because of the unfair business practices of Walmart and Target in Thailand, the state governors pass increased taxes on their goods in their collective states. They have not barred either retailer, nor are they calling for their closure, just a minor cut into their profits until they cease their exploitation of Southeast Asia. Walmart and Target then announce they will be invading all states that signed the agreement and anyone else who does and will not stop until the resolution is rescinded. If/when they win, would people still shop at Target or Walmart? Can Target and Walmart force people to shop there? Because thats what you two are demanded. "We get the best prices, no one can trade with anyone else without our permission (See: CSA and Korea, Ukraine and Ottomans, USA and Siam), and everyone has to buy our stuff." You're literally forcing the whole world to team up against you because neither of you will admit that this is the most baseless cause of war since the War of Jenkin's Ear (which was a real war) in the 1700s. You cannot force people to buy a product, not in RL and not in a game. You don't think after their fathers, sons and brothers die in this senseless war that Americans will be jumping with joy to buy British goods? That Austrian civilians will happily purchase French materials? No, they'll boycott. And as Nelson Mandela and Dr. Martin Luther King showed quite convincingly, if enough people boycott something, their target will break before they do. And theres not a damned thing any government can do about it.
The Ft Lauderdale nations are imposing sanctions, thereby increasing the duties and tariffs of French and British goods in their respective nations, thereby increasing the price while reducing profits. They are not preventing you from selling anything anywhere, nor have the enacted an embargo which would bar any and all importation or exportation of your goods into their nations.
In an RL example, Hydra is Walmart and Target, the opposition are state governors. Because of the unfair business practices of Walmart and Target in Thailand, the state governors pass increased taxes on their goods in their collective states. They have not barred either retailer, nor are they calling for their closure, just a minor cut into their profits until they cease their exploitation of Southeast Asia. Walmart and Target then announce they will be invading all states that signed the agreement and anyone else who does and will not stop until the resolution is rescinded. If/when they win, would people still shop at Target or Walmart? Can Target and Walmart force people to shop there? Because thats what you two are demanded. "We get the best prices, no one can trade with anyone else without our permission (See: CSA and Korea, Ukraine and Ottomans, USA and Siam), and everyone has to buy our stuff." You're literally forcing the whole world to team up against you because neither of you will admit that this is the most baseless cause of war since the War of Jenkin's Ear (which was a real war) in the 1700s. You cannot force people to buy a product, not in RL and not in a game. You don't think after their fathers, sons and brothers die in this senseless war that Americans will be jumping with joy to buy British goods? That Austrian civilians will happily purchase French materials? No, they'll boycott. And as Nelson Mandela and Dr. Martin Luther King showed quite convincingly, if enough people boycott something, their target will break before they do. And theres not a damned thing any government can do about it.
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
Persia mobilises.
christos200
Never tell me the odds
OOC: I hate to say this, but Britain and France are being more warmonger than me. They should have known that eventually, if they terrorize everyone, they would band together in desperation to protect their independence. A more favorable towards Siam deal with economic incentives and not punishing measures like installing Governors would have most likely led to a compromise and a diplomatic success while shattering the image of imperialist powers. Use soft power.
christos200
Never tell me the odds
Allies - Red
British - French Axis - Blue
British - French Axis - Blue
Spoiler :
TheLastJacobite
No Commies
OOC: So, again, that means that to "normalize trade relations" you would have to force people to buy your products. Which, as I keep saying, you can't do and by trying to, you're angering the rest of the world
@TLJ
No state here has centralised control of what their citizens or firms purchase (current situation excepted). Under normal circumstances US firms and individuals are free to make their own economic choices about whether or not they want to buy British or French goods. With sanctions those firms and individuals are not free to make those choices. Asking the US to lift sanctions doesn't mean I'm demanding that American firms and individuals buy my goods. It just means I'm trusting that those individuals and firms will act like the rational economic actors we assume they are. To be honest, I think your example is forced and doesn't make a lot of sense.
@Christos
I don't think we're at war with Prussia. He wasn't a named party. And unless I missed something he hasn't declared war.
No state here has centralised control of what their citizens or firms purchase (current situation excepted). Under normal circumstances US firms and individuals are free to make their own economic choices about whether or not they want to buy British or French goods. With sanctions those firms and individuals are not free to make those choices. Asking the US to lift sanctions doesn't mean I'm demanding that American firms and individuals buy my goods. It just means I'm trusting that those individuals and firms will act like the rational economic actors we assume they are. To be honest, I think your example is forced and doesn't make a lot of sense.
@Christos
I don't think we're at war with Prussia. He wasn't a named party. And unless I missed something he hasn't declared war.
Immaculate
unerring
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 7,623
USA mobilizes.
Grandkhan
Telvanni Master Wizard
OOC: they declared an embargo fairly explicitly. An embargo means that there are legal barriers or restrictions on trade to the embargoed country. As in, conducting trade with the UK is a crime in the US. Currently US citizens do not have freedom of choice to trade with the UK. Lifting the embargo is allowing that choice.
