Art related questions (for WolfRev)

[GoodGame]

I'll take that into consideration. I'll still post probable >> 2000 polygon models in case a second pass is needed later to eliminate MAFs.

The Carthage folder was completely ok.

The Celtic folder was ok, except the warlord, medieval unit is @2500 polys

In the Chinese folder:
The heavyswordsman (axeman) is slightly over 2000 polys. About ok.
The cavalry doodads @ 1500 so total unit probably >> 2000.
The horseman (horseback riding) doodads have the same issue.

 

[GoodGame]

In the Dutch folder, everything is ok.


In the Egypt folder:

The "egpytcuirassier" is @ 2600 polys
The "warelephant" doodads are at 2000, so the unit is definitely over 2000.
The Mig21 is @ 2700 polys
The components of the mideast 'settler' unit is @ 2400. Whole unit may be even more polys

 

[GoodGame]

In the English folder:

The "battleship" is 6000 polys. it's in battleship_kgv folder.
"HMS_warspite" is 4000 polys
"chariot" is 3500 polys
"hpo100 no rigging" is 4000 polys (in ebomber_hpage folder, early bomber unit)
"pup" is 2400 polys (in efighter_sopwithpup folder, early fighter unit)
"gladiator" is 2400 polys (in fighter_gladiator folder)
"illustrious" is 2200 polys in the "supercarrier"


Can't compute total of the marine (with sten) but it looks like it's just under.

 

[GoodGame]

Ethiopian folder: everything ok.

European folder:
Archer doodads @ 1500, so unit is probably around 2200 polys


French folder:
"mnf_dunkerque" in battleship folder @ 6300 polys
"curiassierfr" (curaisser) @ 2200 polys
"nieuport17" (early fighter) @ 2400 polys
"spadvii" (early fighter) @ 2300 polys
"bleriotxi" (early flyer) @ 4300 polys
"marines" @ 2400 polys

German folder
"He111" bomber @ 4800
"fokere3" (early fighter) @ 2500
"taube" (early flyer) @4000
"tornado" (jet fighter) @ 2500
"grafspree" (in heavyCruiser/grey battleship) @ 3900
"ju87" (light bomber stuka) @ 2500
pikeman doodads @ 1600 whole unit probably > 2000
"brandenburg" pre-dreadnought @ 5000

 

[phungus420]

Wow, that's alot of high poly units in the navies. Too bad we're going to need to gut the art for the steam age navies to increase the performance of the Mod, but it is a necessary price to pay. I really think ending MAFs and making the mod playable on large maps for mid range systems is worth reducing the ethnic art variability (a purely aesthetic consideration).

I'm currently playtesting my new python code for city distance, it will probably take a day or two to be satisfied with the balance of the code. It's stable and working great, but I need to tweak the values so that it's balanced. After that I'll join in and help.

Of course, given how fast you are tearing through this, it's possible you'll be finished by then. In which case we can begin working on a beta by the weekend

 

[Flintlock1415]

Just wondering here;
Are you going to leave a version for the people w/ higher end comps who want the better unit models, or are you going to do one version of the mod? I'm not complaining here (I can't even use the mod unless I decide to go get BTS) but I'm purely curious as to how this will be handled.

Edit: sorry if this sounds stupid, but what is a MAF?

 

[phungus420]

MAF is a memory allocation failure. It causes a crash to desktop. It's not a problem with the code, just overloading your RAM/Video Card, so you can just reload and play on, but it's still annoying.

I do plan on having a High Deff and a High Performance versions available, yes.

 

[Flintlock1415]

Thanks for the info! I've never experienced one of those. *crosses fingers*

 

[GoodGame]

Wow, that's alot of high poly units in the navies. Too bad we're going to need to gut the art for the steam age navies to increase the performance of the Mod, but it is a necessary price to pay. I really think ending MAFs and making the mod playable on large maps for mid range systems is worth reducing the ethnic art variability (a purely aesthetic consideration).

I suspect that most of the problem is way too much superstructure was drawn on a lot ships (I presume they were General Matt's work) but probably that can be removed and the 'normal mapping' process applied to get the 3D details transferred to the texture maps instead. I think it will be a tedious process, such that UU's will have to be taken out of the mod for a long while.

 

[GoodGame]

Greek folder:
curaisser @ 2300 polys

Indian folder: everything ok.


Japan folder:
Chariot doodads @ 2000. Whole unit >> 2000 polys
Warelephant doodads @ 3600 polys
horseman model is 2000, Whole unit probably > 2000 polys
"ijn_mikasa" (pre dreadnought) @ 5300 polys
spearman doodads @ 1600. Whole unit about 2300 polys

Khmer folder:
Curaisser @ 2200 polys

Korean folder:
marine @ 2200 polys

Mail folder:
Grenadier doodads at 1500; Whole unit probably >> 2000

 

[GoodGame]

Meso folder (as in Mesoamerican)
curaisser @ 2700 polys
warelephant (elephant_andes) doodads @ 2700; Unit >> 2000
galeass / trireme_fx @ 2700


Mideast folder
curaisser @ 2300 polys
ancient warlord @ 2100


Mongol folder is ok, except settler might be over--can't compute the total polys.

 

[GoodGame]

Native folder:
Sioux_knight is 3400 polys

Ottomans folder
Chariot doodads @ 2400, whole unit >> 2000
knight doodads @ 2300, whole unit >>2000
spearman doodads @ 1500, whole unit ~ 2300
swordsman doodads @ 1500, whole unit ~ 2200

Persian folder
heavy swordsman doodads >2000, whole unit >> 2000

 

[GoodGame]

Polish folder:
Archer doodads @1500, whole unit about 2100
pzl37 (bomber) @ 2200
curiasser doodad @ 2600, whole unit >>3000
heavycavalry (knight) @ 2600, whole unit >>3000
ancient/medieval warlord @ 2500

Portuguese folder is ok.

Roman folder:
battleship rm_littorio @ 7300
cannon ~ 2300
fiat42(fighter) @ 2400polys
tornado (jet fighter) @ 2500 polys
medieval ancient_warlord @ 2500 polys

 

[phungus420]

Was going to get cracking on this, but where do you download that sceneviewer you and white rabbit speak of? Google gives me tons of links that look like spyware downloaders to me if I put in sceneviewer in search.

Edit: Man this sucks. the sceneviewer thing, 3smax or whatever refuses to install, says it can't find my redistr.msi or whatever. And blender refuses to open .nif files, saying it can't read the file type, even though I have downloaded and installed the .nif scripts.

Edit: OK finally got nifscope working. But how in the world do you count the polys?

 

[GoodGame]

I couldn't find info on counting polys with nifskope. There is a forum, programmer's feedback, etc...(@ Niftools) but I didn't take time to try that route.

Sceneviewer didn't give me any problem. I take it you mean the one in this distro: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=159481
correct? I just unzipped the distro to a new folder, then used unpack to open the wolfshanze.fpk file to that folder. Then I told XP that sceneviewer was the default program for .nif files. Then, you copy the "boundshape.nif" and "boundshape.tga" to every folder that had .nif files to open (i just shortcutted them to the clipboard and CTRL+V'd as I examine files); Do that and then go in the folders click on the name of the .nif file you want to examine.

I don't recall needing an .msi file for Sceneviewer. If you do need one, just download one from Microsoft. The .msi's are just their proprietary means of distributing extensions for XP/Vista. You may need to install some of Microsoft's extensions to support it, IDK. If you do, Microsoft's help pages probably explain what needs to be done.

EDIT: And you might get a shader error of some sort in sceneveiwer. Just close the error window on the windows bar and the model will still load, but without textures usually.

Edit: for Blender, to use the scripts, you have to use the Script buddy window to make sure the script is initiated, then you can load the file. I went to Scripts window, then one button to the right on the toolbar is the Scripts window--click it and select from the popup "Import"---> then select NetImmerse/Gamebryo script (for .nifs). The script will execute, and then you can go to a file windows and pick the .nif folder/file that you want. Then you just select the 3d-view window.

 

[GoodGame]

Russian folder
Battleship is 6000 polys
Su25 (jet fighter) is 3200 polys
Tb3 (bomber) is 3300 polys
Tu22 (stealth bomber) is 9700 polys
Chariot is 2200 polys
Nieuport11 (early fighter) is 2500 polys
Mstype1 (early flier) is 2200 polys
Mi24 (gunship) is 3100 polys
Swordsman doodads @ 1400, total ~ 2100 polys
T-90s @ 20,000 polys NO KIDDING


Couldn't open I16 fighter (something wrong with the data)


Spain folder
Spanish galleon is 10,000 polys


Vietnam folder
Mig21 is 2700 polys
chinahorseman is probably >> 2000 in total

Viking folder
knight doodads @ 1600, whole >> 2000 probably
Machinegun @ 2100
'greekphalanx' (viking pikeman) @ 2200


And that's a wrap!!


Looks like the big poly units are odd battleships, the odd airplanes, ethnic chariots and elephants, warlords, over-detailed-cut-and-paste ethnic units, and Wolf units that were probably ripped from other games.

 

[phungus420]

Sweetness!

I'm going to start working on this right away, that's alot of XML work that needs doing now

If you want to keep helping here is the next phase:
Identify Models, and check polycount that we could use for:

1)Motorized infantry (Late WW2-Cold War era APCs)--Bridges gap between Infantry and Mech Infantry
2)Modern attack choppers
3)Transportation choppers -Will be upgrade for Paratroopers
4)Modern Spec Ops -secondary upgrade for Paratroopers
5)Armored Scout -ie armored car--Bridges gap between Cav and Tanks/Gunships

That's it, that's all that's on the block for Bronze, Steam & Tears. Once this is done we will have a working beta to test.

Like I said I'll start working on the XML now. If you can get just one unit for Motorized Inf, the Attack Chopper, and Transportation chopper, I can use the Navy Seal as a unit for Spec Ops, and one of the armored cars that looks low detail from this site to get a working beta going. Probably within the next 24 hours.



List of Art on chopping block:

Merchantman 6000 triangles
Early Bomber 5200 triangles
Light Carrier---model "langley" 4100 triangles
(cog and early flyer saved. Cog is an early unit, so I'm not too worried, and it's needed with little replacement art available, and there is only a single early flyer ever, and it is usually upgraded quickly)

In the African folder:
African chariot: 2300 triangles

In the American folder:
B-52 @ 3300 triangles
Chariot @ 3500 triangles
J2F seaplane @ 2500 triangles

In the Babylon folder:
Crossbowman doodads @ 1500. Probably that whole unit is >>2000
Swordsman doodads @ 1500. Again probable that unit is >>2000

In the Byzantine folder:
Crossbowman doodads @ 1700. Probable that unit is >> 2000
Heavy swordsman (maceman) doodads @ 1700. Again probable that unit >> 2000
Pikeman doodads @ 1800. " " " "
light sword (sword unit) doodads @ 1700 "" " " " "

In the Chinese folder:
The cavalry doodads @ 1500 so total unit probably >> 2000.
The horseman (horseback riding) doodads have the same issue.

In the Egypt folder:
The "egpytcuirassier" is @ 2600 polys
The "warelephant" doodads are at 2000, so the unit is definitely over 2000.
The Mig21 is @ 2700 polys
The components of the mideast 'settler' unit is @ 2400. Whole unit may be even more polys

In the English folder:
The "battleship" is 6000 polys. it's in battleship_kgv folder.
"HMS_warspite" is 4000 polys
"chariot" is 3500 polys
"hpo100 no rigging" is 4000 polys (in ebomber_hpage folder, early bomber unit)
"pup" is 2400 polys (in efighter_sopwithpup folder, early fighter unit)
"gladiator" is 2400 polys (in fighter_gladiator folder)
"illustrious" is 2200 polys in the "supercarrier"

French folder:
"mnf_dunkerque" in battleship folder @ 6300 polys
"nieuport17" (early fighter) @ 2400 polys
"spadvii" (early fighter) @ 2300 polys
"bleriotxi" (early flyer) @ 4300 polys
"marines" @ 2400 polys

German folder
"He111" bomber @ 4800
"fokere3" (early fighter) @ 2500
"taube" (early flyer) @4000
"tornado" (jet fighter) @ 2500
"grafspree" (in heavyCruiser/grey battleship) @ 3900
"ju87" (light bomber stuka) @ 2500
"brandenburg" pre-dreadnought @ 5000

Japan folder:
Chariot doodads @ 2000. Whole unit >> 2000 polys
Warelephant doodads @ 3600 polys
horseman model is 2000, Whole unit probably > 2000 polys
"ijn_mikasa" (pre dreadnought) @ 5300 polys

Korean folder:
marine @ 2200 polys

Mali folder:
Grenadier doodads at 1500; Whole unit probably >> 2000

Mesoamerican folder:
curaisser @ 2700 polys
warelephant (elephant_andes) doodads @ 2700; Unit >> 2000
galeass / trireme_fx @ 2700

Mongol folder:
...settler--can't compute the total polys.

Native folder:
Sioux_knight is 3400 polys

Ottomans folder:
Chariot doodads @ 2400, whole unit >> 2000
knight doodads @ 2300, whole unit >>2000

Persian folder:
heavy swordsman doodads >2000, whole unit >> 2000

Polish folder:
pzl37 (bomber) @ 2200
curiasser doodad @ 2600, whole unit >>3000
heavycavalry (knight) @ 2600, whole unit >>3000
ancient/medieval warlord @ 2500

Roman folder:
battleship rm_littorio @ 7300
fiat42(fighter) @ 2400polys
tornado (jet fighter) @ 2500 polys
medieval ancient_warlord @ 2500 polys

Russian folder
Battleship is 6000 polys
Su25 (jet fighter) is 3200 polys
Tb3 (bomber) is 3300 polys
Tu22 (stealth bomber) is 9700 polys
Nieuport11 (early fighter) is 2500 polys
Mi24 (gunship) is 3100 polys
T-90s @ 20,000 polys NO KIDDING
I16 fighter (something wrong with the data)

Spain folder:
Spanish galleon is 10,000 polys

Vietnam folder:
Mig21 is 2700 polys
chinahorseman is probably >> 2000 in total

Viking folder:
knight doodads @ 1600, whole >> 2000 probably

 

[GoodGame]

Just a thought, you might want to do it in two passes, as you'll lose a lot of ethnic art, if you hold strictly to 2000 as the cut-off; Also I find it curious that the Warlord unit is 2500 polys, which makes me wonder if that might not be an acceptable limit.

So, I'm thinking...maybe put anything over 3000 polys on the chopping block for the first pass, and then playtest it for MAFs, before chopping up everything over 2000?

EDIT: And I think transport helicopter would be better represented as a new promotion that gives amphibious, extra movement (as much as a paratrooper), and is interceptable by air planes.

 

[phungus420]

Uploaded a working alpha build in the WolfRevolution thread in the modpacks forum. I tried to delete the PlotSystem, and CitySystem XML files (so that it would load default civ's), in the belief that that would remove city art. Unfortunately that causes an art bug crash, so I had to leave those files in there. Any chance you'd be willing to go through the city art and identify the extremely high poly building models in there? I know there are a couple, and it looks like I'll need to manually remove their refernces in the xml, which means I need the troublemakers identified.

 

[GoodGame]

ok, I'll take a look at the added ethnic buildings.