Art Stuff

[BobTheTerrible]

I might have some suggestions for opening menu music. There's a one-man project from Russia playing high quality ethnic/ambient/industrial/awesome music which he releases for free, if you give me an idea of what you are looking for I can suggest a few songs. Here's a link to get an idea of what he plays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FJrUzR-iTw . He plays a LOT of different styles, so if that's not the type of thing you're looking for there's plenty more if your interested.

 

[achilleszero]

I guess it's Ride of the Valkyrie - probably the most used and famous Wagner piece of all times (probably because of Apocalypse Now! ..."I love the smell of Napalm in the morning...")...

Cheers, LT.

Ride of the Valkeries, thats gota be what hes thinking of. I couldnt quite translate his duns. If its the one your thinking of, phungus, Id be on board with it. Back before everyone thought it neccesary to subject you to their cellphone ringtone, I had that as a ringtone for a friend. He was quite unique with a strange mixture of timidity and delusions of granduer in a ironic Barney Fife kinda way. You could almost hear Ride of the Valkeries playing whenever he entered a room.

 

[phungus420]

So we've been talking about leaderheads that aren't deserving of their spots in the game.

Here is my list of leaders that could get axed:
Lech Welasa
Hirohito
Napoleon III

What do you think of dropping Lech Welasa and swapping in Xerxes?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11061

Hirohito gives way to El Cid:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11060

And finaly Abu Bakr replaces Napoleon III
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10727


Thoughts?

Me personally I'm not too happy with El Cid or Abu Bakr. I'd certainly be fine without changing those, but what I'd really like is to remove Hirohito and Napoleon III with leaders that are more deserving (just not convinced Abu Bakr, and particularly El Cid fit this bill). But Xerxes seems infinitely better then Lech, and is pretty much a lock at this point.

 

[achilleszero]

Yes definitely out with Lech and Napolean the lesser. But even though I dont like Hirohito, I like having him in there. Theres so many WWII leaders in already but with Hirohito in there it gives a nice 4 good guys, 2 bad guys ratio. The games not really about just the good guys, and it gives a little credance to having Hitler in there by not having the evil bastard in there alone.

Xerxes is great. Someone for my spartan to rewrite history with.

I guess it would be a toss up between El Cid and Abu Bakr. Theyre both famous as hell and important to boot. Either one has just as much right as some other leaders in LoR, to be called a leader. And both Arabia and Spain only have one ruler each. Hmm.. and they both have cool names too.

As you said were kinda running low on top notch leaderheads. Making harder for future modders. But definatley should have the best possible leader roster in the main mod. Its a shame that having 65 traits and 65 leaders gives such great symmetry to the mod, other wise I would be down for cutting more guys out. But would really have a tough time singling any one out, other than the ones youve mentioned.

 

[Alsark]

Man, I can't find this operatic piece at all, it should be really easy to find. I thought it was wagnar. What's that one epic operatic piece that goes:
Dun-dun-dun-dun
Dun-dun-dun-dun
Dun-dun-dun-duuun-duun---Dun-dun
Dun-dun-dun-dun

Dun-dun-dun-dun
Dun-dun-dun-duun-dun-Dun-dun

lol, hope that's understandible.

Um... Beethoven's 5th? As embarrassing as it may be you could upload an audio file of yourself humming it. The tone enough should help us out a lot. Unfortunately it's probably near impossible to identify a song through text .


For the theme song are you trying to go with something soft or powerful? Dies Irae is pretty cool, but it might scare people, heh.

As for leaders... I like Hirohito in terms of his skin, but yeah, there are definitely people who are "more deserving" of being a leaderhead (and on that note, I'd say Reagen isn't entirely "deserving" of having a leaderhead, either - but I don't know much about modern history, so maybe he did more than I know).

If we're trying to limit ourself to a certain number of leaders, then I'd prefer we "spread the wealth". Some civilizations have 3 or 4 leaders, and I think it might be more favorable to try to axe some of those leaders in favor for adding leaders to civilizations with only one leader. Spain and Arabia are two great civilizations that are really deserving of a second leader (so it's great that good leaderheads exist for them). There are probably quite a few Viking candidates, too (not necessarily in terms of leaderhead art, I just mean historically). But yeah, finding the appropriate art definitely does pose a problem, unfortunately.

 

[phungus420]

Anyone know a program I can use to convert MP3 to bik? More importantly does anyone know a program I can use to combine mulitple MP3s, and then convert the new music file to bik. Single song seems a bit short for the intro, need to extend it.

 

[phungus420]

Carl Orff -O Fortuna

That's the piece I was thinking of. It would make good intro for sure, but I'm going to use it for Hitler's Leaderhead music instead. Think I'm going with the Mozart Dies Irae for the intro music. My step dad who owns a World Music store is going to track down some good leaderhead music for Ataturk and Bolivar.


Gangster's Paradise Will definatly be added to the music for the Future era when I go through and split the Modern/Future era music so they are more unique. Will also be throwing in something by Jimmy Hendrix for the Modern era. If anyone has any good ideas for music to include for the modern/futer eras to work in the splitting for music for these eras, feel free to make reccomendations. (I'll probably also rename the future era to Information Era)

 

[achilleszero]

Phungus, I dont think it would be a good idea to subject the players to anyones taste in popular culture genres of music.

Theme music, the way its now is the way to go. Something that will appeal to most people but also melts away in to the background to where you dont even hear it if your more focused on the game.

 

[BobTheTerrible]

Phungus, I dont think it would be a good idea to subject the players to anyones taste in popular culture genres of music.

Theme music, the way its now is the way to go. Something that will appeal to most people but also melts away in to the background to where you dont even hear it if your more focused on the game.

I agree. I would not want to hear Gangster's Paradise while playing, and even though I like Jimi Hendrix, I don't think it's the right way to go. I think instrumental music is the way to go.

 

[Alsark]

I agree with the above two posters. I would go so far as to mute the music if things like that were implemented, to be honest. I know that my brother would be the same way (who also plays this mod).

O Fortuna is cool (I like it a lot, actually), but it seems kind of weird to have it as Hitler's background music. I dunno. It sounds like some kind of "end of the world" music, and even though Hitler does seem evil, it seems like a bit much. Maybe not, though. What are other people's thoughts on this?

 

[Lord Tirian]

I agree with the above two posters. I would go so far as to mute the music if things like that were implemented, to be honest. I know that my brother would be the same way (who also plays this mod).

O Fortuna is cool (I like it a lot, actually), but it seems kind of weird to have it as Hitler's background music. I dunno. It sounds like some kind of "end of the world" music, and even though Hitler does seem evil, it seems like a bit much. Maybe not, though. What are other people's thoughts on this?

Ditto on both - especially considering the motto of LoR - inofficial expansion pack.

Both are things I wouldn't expect in an expansion - why?

1) It's music with lyrics. Lyrics are distracting, especially if you can understand them (Gregorian chants and so on are slightly different, because you don't actually listen to the text) - but something like Gangster's Paradise? Impossible to ignore that - also breaks with Civ's general music style.

2) Sorry, but O Fortuna for Hitler? Doesn't fit at all! History-wise, definitely not. But also theme-wise - it's more "ancient evil" or something like that, not really like "history" (which is Civ's - and hence LoR's theme) - something Wagnerian or a march would fit better (especially as Hitler was a fan of Wagnerian music).

Cheers, LT.

 

[phungus420]

Hitler adored Carl Orff. As for Hendrix, I'm definatly going to use one of his blues pieces that will melt in the background and fits the modern era, I'm not going to drop in Purple Haze or something that comes out too hard, and will sound off from the rest of the track. Personally I also think Gangster's Paradise will melt in the background pretty well, and will definatly test it, but if it's a problem will drop it. There isn't much epic sounding background modern music around that fits the information era. Most of the current modern music stuff Civ uses is crap actually, and does grate you, at least I don't find it easy listening. Which is a complete contrast to the other era music, ancient till industrial is all good, but I think the current modern/future music is crap, and could definatly be improved. I can see what you guys mean about Gangster's Paradise though, will see if it works, if not I will drop it of course. But Hendrix has some great blues stuff, that really will fit in nicely guys, and actually be perfect modern genre background.

 

[Alsark]

Here's some "future" music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUJdRrmKdkU (( I'd get rid of the first few seconds because it annoys me ))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkQfGzbLBGI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf6n6p-h2Kw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewUfKHHwM1w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWGSTTxMjI4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsLGIGaf6BY&feature=related

I'm not sure what "feel" you're going for, though. And yes, I picked a lot of trance-style music because it has that "future" kind of vibe to it. I'd also prefer not to have vocals in the music, so these work pretty well in that regard, too.

 

[phungus420]

Vocals in and of themselves ain't a bad thing. Most of the Mideaval era is vocals. I think you guys have a problem with english vocals. The thing is though, english vocals are commonly used in modern music. I've been in France and Korea and seen live concerts sung in English by people who can't speak it. In modern music english is like how German/Latin was in pre industrial music. I just can't ignore that fact, and I can't accept the complete dropping of english vocals because it ignores the role of English in modern popular culture.

 

[Lord Tirian]

I just can't ignore that fact, and I can't accept the complete dropping of english vocals because it ignores the role of English in modern popular culture.

While true, it's also depending on the style of the music - for example, rap music is very vocal-based - you sort of cannot ignore them, because of the heavy emphasis on the vocals, whereas something like Teardrop puts the emphasis on the instrumentals, making the vocals less obtrusive.

Cheers, LT.

 

[phungus420]

Opera puts the emphasis on vocals...

This is particularly evident in the Mideaval music in the game.

 

[achilleszero]

Im not really concerned with what language the music would be. My only concern is that picking the wrong type of music is one of those things that can make or break a presentation. The impact of a bad soundtrack is much greater than that of a good one so I would prefer to err on the side of caution.

Popular culture songs are sometimes ok in movies when played for a short scene. But civ is much grander than that. I dont know if Gangster paradise or Hendrix would fit in with Leonard Nimoy and quotes from the Bagahvad Gita. Firaxis did throw some 'fun" things in there along with pop culture references. But the music is going to be in the players face for hours not just in passing. I actually like both those songs/artists, but I just have a hard time envisioning it with my civ. Could you post a link to the Hendrix themes you had in mind? The only thing I can think of when I think of him is rippin' guitar rifts.

 

[achilleszero]

Phungus: Since LoR doesnt work with frozen animations, can I delete any freeze nifs that I find in the unit art?

 

[phungus420]

Anything that is strictly ethnic unit art would be fine to delete, yes. I'm going to make a LoR light that will use default BtS art for the most part. It will need to use some added art for the added Leaderheads and units, so if you find any freeze nifs in these, leave them be, at least until LoR light is released. Finally related to this, do you think you could make freeze nifs for the essential models for added units, so that they will fully work for LoR light users that turn on freeze animations?

 

[achilleszero]

I dont know to make the freeze nifs. And I dont think anyone on the forums knows how either. It would seem to be a simple thing being just a mesh but apparently bones are and integral part of the nifs. The meshes will always revert to the nuetral/ armsspread out position if the bones are deleted.

I will have to post in C&C and ask around. I have a theory and will test it out later. It has to be a very simple process, but thats provided we can figure out what that process is. But if I do figure it out, i can do those units no problem.