Ashes of Erebus (RifE's Follow-up) Download and Bug Reports

[Blazenclaw]

I've said before that I think the Infernals could use a different World Spell than Hyborem's Whisper.

Any proposals for what it could be? I do agree the current implementation is... wanting.

 

[Nor'easter]

it's the founding culture that counts at the moment for conqueror/tolerant. So the city with Mercurian gate will never be a mercurian city when conquered. you need to make them found a new one

That makes sense. Probably easiest to program.

Also conceptually I kind of like the idea of a long-suppressed culture re-emerging after a tolerant (or "conqueror") leader takes the city from those who conquered it. So probably best to keep it as is.

 

[Nor'easter]

Any proposals for what it could be? I do agree the current implementation is... wanting.

We had a bit of a discussion about this a long time ago, starting here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ideas-requests-and-feedback.373631/post-11061620

@Krieger66 suggested a new world spell: "The Forsaken Path: For 5 turns infernal units that die in combat create a hellish flames in the square they died, that spawns units for the infernal civ.(The AI would be weighted to use this during a war, or when they have a stack of units in enemy territory). Enemy units killed add mana to your stockpile equal to (.5 * level), or some other value depending on how mana is handled."

Then @Valkrionn suggested the following: "I would instead say that all existing units receive a promotion which causes them to spawn this fire when they die, and then limit how long the fire itself lasts, rather than limit how long they can be created."

I know I'm quoting a discussion from 14(!) years ago, but I'm afraid my own suggestions for a new Infernal World Spell weren't too creative.

If the current world spell stays, maybe it should function as some kind of a balancing mechanism, targeting the civ with the highest score. Although losing 3 or 4 or 5 cities would suck, even if you're the most powerful civ in the world. Yes, you can quickly take back the cities in question, but you'll have to rebuild several buildings. And if you've lost a city with one or more National Wonders it's even worse.

 

[Nor'easter]

Getting a repeatable CtD when I hit "Enter."

SVN Revision 379.

Active modules are the following: Animal Lairs, Arachnophobia, Black Duke, Chislev Expansion, Churel, City Guards, Coaxoch, Dao, Dural, Dwarves, ElfnDeath, Emergent Leaders, Saila the Everchanging, Flight of Drakes, Frozen, Goblin, GotNBandaid, Important Leaders, Lizard Art Fix, Ljosalfar Expansion, Magister Ashes, MOM Buildings, RifE More Events, More Fortifications, More Goodies, New Traits, Keepers of Noggormotha, PPQ Effects, PPQ's Unit Models, PPQ's Unit Models - Naval, Scion Healthcare, Sidar Wanes, Watering the Flames, Worker-Rework.

 

[Nor'easter]

Getting another repeatable CtD at the end of the turn.

SVN Revision 379.

Active modules are the following: Animal Lairs, Arachnophobia, Black Duke, Chislev Expansion, Churel, City Guards, Coaxoch, Dao, Dural, Dwarves, ElfnDeath, Emergent Leaders, Saila the Everchanging, Flight of Drakes, Frozen, Goblin, GotNBandaid, Important Leaders, Lizard Art Fix, Ljosalfar Expansion, Magister Ashes, MOM Buildings, RifE More Events, More Fortifications, More Goodies, New Traits, Keepers of Noggormotha, PPQ Effects, PPQ's Unit Models, PPQ's Unit Models - Naval, Scion Healthcare, Sidar Wanes, Watering the Flames, Worker-Rework.

 

[Nor'easter]

Repeatable CtD at the end of the turn.

SVN Revision 379.

Active modules are the following: Animal Lairs, Arachnophobia, Black Duke, Chislev Expansion, Churel, City Guards, Coaxoch, Dao, Dural, Dwarves, ElfnDeath, Emergent Leaders, Saila the Everchanging, Flight of Drakes, Frozen, Goblin, GotNBandaid, Important Leaders, Lizard Art Fix, Ljosalfar Expansion, Magister Ashes, MOM Buildings, RifE More Events, More Fortifications, More Goodies, New Traits, Keepers of Noggormotha, PPQ Effects, PPQ's Unit Models, PPQ's Unit Models - Naval, Scion Healthcare, Sidar Wanes, Watering the Flames, Worker-Rework.

 

[Nor'easter]

Repeatable CtD at the end of the turn.

SVN Revision 379.

Active modules are the following: Animal Lairs, Arachnophobia, Black Duke, Chislev Expansion, Churel, City Guards, Coaxoch, Dao, Dural, Dwarves, ElfnDeath, Emergent Leaders, Saila the Everchanging, Flight of Drakes, Frozen, Goblin, GotNBandaid, Important Leaders, Lizard Art Fix, Ljosalfar Expansion, Magister Ashes, MOM Buildings, RifE More Events, More Fortifications, More Goodies, New Traits, Keepers of Noggormotha, PPQ Effects, PPQ's Unit Models, PPQ's Unit Models - Naval, Scion Healthcare, Sidar Wanes, Watering the Flames, Worker-Rework.

 

[Nor'easter]

We had a bit of a discussion about this a long time ago, starting here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ideas-requests-and-feedback.373631/post-11061620

@Krieger66 suggested a new world spell: "The Forsaken Path: For 5 turns infernal units that die in combat create a hellish flames in the square they died, that spawns units for the infernal civ.(The AI would be weighted to use this during a war, or when they have a stack of units in enemy territory). Enemy units killed add mana to your stockpile equal to (.5 * level), or some other value depending on how mana is handled."

Then @Valkrionn suggested the following: "I would instead say that all existing units receive a promotion which causes them to spawn this fire when they die, and then limit how long the fire itself lasts, rather than limit how long they can be created."

I know I'm quoting a discussion from 14(!) years ago, but I'm afraid my own suggestions for a new Infernal World Spell weren't too creative.

If the current world spell stays, maybe it should function as some kind of a balancing mechanism, targeting the civ with the highest score. Although losing 3 or 4 or 5 cities would suck, even if you're the most powerful civ in the world. Yes, you can quickly take back the cities in question, but you'll have to rebuild several buildings. And if you've lost a city with one or more National Wonders it's even worse.

If it helps in thinking about this, I see two main problems with Hyborem's Whisper.

First, it's not very useful to the Infernals themselves. My experience has been that Hyborem (and now, the other Infernal leaders) will cast the spell and take one of my cities. I demand they return it. They either return it because they can't defend it, since they're on a far-off continent. Or, even though they can't defend it because they're so far away, they refuse to return it, I declare war, march in, and retake the city. There will be destroyed buildings in the city that have to be rebuilt, and the city might have contained one or more National Wonders that need to be rebuilt, so that's an additional temporary setback for the targeted civ.

Someone once suggested having the Infernals gain all the units in the city, in addition to the city itself, but I think that would aggravate what I see the second problem.

The second problem I see is that the Infernal world spell targets only a single opposing civ. World Spells like Raging Seas, Stasis, Worldbreak, River of Blood, and Arcane Lacuna, as well as something like the Blight, unpleasant as they are, affect pretty much everyone equally. Hyborem's Whisper, by contrast, targets just one civ. I don't think strengthening it is the answer. Especially now with there potentially being multiple Infernal factions in the game, with the possibility of a single civ losing several cities at once. I know part of the game is overcoming challenges, but that would be a bit much.

Anyway, just wanted to clarify where my dissatisfaction with the spell originated and maybe help in thinking about alternatives.

 

[Blazenclaw]

they can't defend it, since they're on a far-off continent

I recently did a MP game with them and was reminded that they spawn obsidian gates, so distance actually shouldn't really be a factor; as a human player, I would send Hybo in to do the initial defense, before I can get sufficient numbers in.

That said, everything else about it being particularly targeted is quite apt. On Forsaken path, there's already code for Hellfire lair improvements spawning under mixed Agares/Infernal control as AC rises, so something along those lines could be implemented probably without much work. Duration of improvement would be harder, but giving units a chance to spawn hellfire on death could definitely be done.