Ask a leftie/leftist/leftarian/"the left"

[warpus]

Apologies, it was a lame question. This one's better - Do you believe that the left has the moral upper hand in European nations/Canada because of their ideological claims?

Here in Canada we have the Conservative party, which is a bit more liberal than the Democrats in the U.S... and the Conservative party, which is more conservative than the Liberals but still pretty much conservative.. very close to centre though.

Then there is the new official opposition - the NDP (it used to be the liberals), which is a true Liberal party of sorts.. at least in the north american sense. A lot of people here call them communist but they are pretty much comparable to a typical European left-wing party.. at least I think. I could be very wrong about this particular fact

Anyway, your question is answered differently, depending on who you talk to.. obviously. The so-called left in Canada is larger than the right, so.. if you put any stock in the idea that democracy means that the more moral parties get more votes, then the answer is clear. Also, our Prime Minister is sort of morally suspicious and he`s Conservative.. so..

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Are you often discriminated against for writing with your left hand? Do you use your right hand in public to hide that you're left handed?

What I do with my right hand in public I'm not ready to discuss.

 

[WWTVICTOR]

Are you a nationalist? Or do you forseen a bright future of globalization?

 

[timtofly]

Wut? Please elaborate.

Let's start by ignoring propaganda, so socialism means what it should: any system where workers control the means of production. I'm certain the people over in the 'Ask a Red' could give a more nuanced definition, but this is a good-enough starting place.

I bring up this question already knowing a part of the answer, but I think it's a productive one. It's the same question that I tried to bring up in some other thread where Cutlass was debating with Traitorfish, inno-whatever-that-name-is, et al.: the average person in the US [and possibly elsewhere in the world but especially here] assume all left-leaning political ideas are socialist and vice-versa, but I think this is flawed, simplistic, and indicates a basic lack of understanding of both philosophies.

I haven't heard this one before.

In socialism, the public is trained to believe that the government is supposed to take care of the public and are willing to give up their freedoms to do so.


In Communism, the government enforces the mindset that people give up their freedoms in order to cary out socialism. I am not sure that enough common folk could get the majority to change their minds and live equally. Communism by default has to be enforced.

Both are "socialistic" in that they seek to uplift people equally. Socialism is not really equality, but the mind set that there can be equality, without too much government interference. In socialism you still need the rich to provide, or else the government magically creates an "economy" out of thin air.

 

[GamezRule]

Both of those seem to be essentially just capitalistic systems or modes of production.

 

[Antilogic]

In socialism, the public is trained to believe that the government is supposed to take care of the public and are willing to give up their freedoms to do so.


In Communism, the government enforces the mindset that people give up their freedoms in order to cary out socialism. I am not sure that enough common folk could get the majority to change their minds and live equally. Communism by default has to be enforced.

Both are "socialistic" in that they seek to uplift people equally. Socialism is not really equality, but the mind set that there can be equality, without too much government interference. In socialism you still need the rich to provide, or else the government magically creates an "economy" out of thin air.

...what you have posted doesn't jive with any of the socialist theorists that I have read or what the guys who proclaim they are socialists say. Socialists focus more on the interactions between classes and economics, etc. than on the size of or level of interference by the government. For example, co-ops were all individuals working for the co-op own it and take a share of the profits is socialist, and it doesn't require any government interference. Non-profits run by their volunteers, which take in donations and focus on achieving some societal goal besides maximizing the profit for the owner, could be loosely construed as socialist as well, and no government is required here either.

I'd appreciate it if one of the Reds would tell me whether or not this is an accurate understanding of their theory.

 

[ParkCungHee]

What are your thoughts on Left-Conservatives?

 

[Crezth]

In socialism, the public is trained to believe that the government is supposed to take care of the public and are willing to give up their freedoms to do so.

In Communism, the government enforces the mindset that people give up their freedoms in order to cary out socialism. I am not sure that enough common folk could get the majority to change their minds and live equally. Communism by default has to be enforced.

Both are "socialistic" in that they seek to uplift people equally. Socialism is not really equality, but the mind set that there can be equality, without too much government interference. In socialism you still need the rich to provide, or else the government magically creates an "economy" out of thin air.

Not so sure this is correct. No true Communist appears to argue what you say they do at all, nor even a crude simulacrum.

 

[Masada]

no 'true' communist?

no communist here does might be a better point to make.

 

[Traitorfish]

In socialism, the public is trained to believe that the government is supposed to take care of the public and are willing to give up their freedoms to do so.


In Communism, the government enforces the mindset that people give up their freedoms in order to cary out socialism. I am not sure that enough common folk could get the majority to change their minds and live equally. Communism by default has to be enforced.

Both are "socialistic" in that they seek to uplift people equally. Socialism is not really equality, but the mind set that there can be equality, without too much government interference. In socialism you still need the rich to provide, or else the government magically creates an "economy" out of thin air.

That is complete nonsense on every level. I can't even begin correcting it, because its basic premises are assumed with seemingly no reference to reality.

*snip*
I'd appreciate it if one of the Reds would tell me whether or not this is an accurate understanding of their theory.

That's about right, yeah.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That is complete nonsense on every level. I can't even begin correcting it, because its basic premises are assumed with seemingly no reference to reality.

The really sad part is he said it after quoting that post.

The mind. She boggles.

 

[timtofly]

That is complete nonsense on every level. I can't even begin correcting it, because its basic premises are assumed with seemingly no reference to reality.


That's about right, yeah.

Then why are there no nations implementing the above forms without any government at all? Government is not needed, then abolish all forms of it and let's see what happens. We do not need any leaders guiding us, nor any laws restricting us. We can coexist as an entity.

 

[Traitorfish]

Then why are there no nations implementing the above forms without any government at all? Government is not needed, then abolish all forms of it and let's see what happens. We do not need any leaders guiding us, nor any laws restricting us. We can coexist as an entity.

I don't really understand what you're asking here, but if you insist on following it up, please ask in the "Ask a Red" thread, rather than in this one. "Ask a..." threads have a purpose, so let's not derail them.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Government is not needed, then abolish all forms of it and let's see what happens. We do not need any leaders guiding us, nor any laws restricting us. We can coexist as an entity.

We need the government to find out capitalist spies, sabotagers and provocators. As Comrade Stalin pointed out, it's foolish and downright criminal to expect the class struggle to subside as Socialism advances. On the contrary, the more successful socialism is, the more furious and desperate the hidden degenerate capitalists and Trotskyists become. We need a strong government to deal with these subversive elements. Death to capitalist lackeys!