Ask the Expat in Saudi Arabia

[amadeus]

They used to have Carrefour here, but they were bought out and rebranded. They used to have lots of foreign products, but now it's just a regular Japanese supermarket. I guess there's not enough of a Western expat presence to justify operating one, let alone many large foreign grocery stores.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

The Europeans seem to go there. I use the Safeway for American products. This place is very segregated. Arabs go here, Westerners there, TCN (third-country nationals) way over there out of sight. I get paid more than other people doing the same job because of my nationality.

I have a gay friend who reports his social life is like that too. The different groups may overlap a bit, but they do not really mingle.

There are even compound that do not allow Saudis in the gate. Imagine that.

 

[The_J]

How difficult was it to get a work permit (or whatever) and the related bureaucracy?
Do you have to take care about what you say, e.g. regarding politics?

 

[Paul in Saudi]

I no longer give a damn about expressing myself in the office. I am careful what I say in class. All teachers are and should be.

The visa are issued to the employer. This is like the US guest-worker system. So if they do not like you, or if they owe you too much money, the company can kick you out. Worse, if they don't want you to leave you cannot. No, the US embassy cannot help you. Tying the visa to the company, rather than the worker is a source of enslavement. Keep that in mind when you countries discuss overseas workers.

 

[warpus]

My students know nothing of the non-Islamic world. I used to live in Panama. None of them in all these years ever heard of it.

Really? Do they receive religious schooling and that's it?

When you say non-Islamic world do you also mean places like New York, Paris, London, etc.? Surely they've heard of those places! Or no?

 

[Paul in Saudi]

YEs, they know of Hollywood, but not California. They do not know where New York is, but everyone knows of Texas. Over the decades, huge number of Saudis have studied there. They know London and Paris, but could not find Canada or Poland on the map.

Here we have "Literary High Schools," these are the religious ones, and "Science High Schools" for a more normal course of studies. Further some schools are paid for by the government (and are thought of as second-rate) while others are paid for by the oil industry. They have better physical plant (buildings, furniture and so on). Rich kids go to private Western schools.

When we send kids to the Real World for university, we have to give them a year-long "foundation year" of English, and surprisingly math to get them ready. Schools here are quite bad.

OK, I am about to take a shower and go to bed. Feel free to ask away. I will look at this in the morning but probably will not post until I am home from work.

 

[The_J]

The visa are issued to the employer. This is like the US guest-worker system. So if they do not like you, or if they owe you too much money, the company can kick you out. Worse, if they don't want you to leave you cannot. No, the US embassy cannot help you. Tying the visa to the company, rather than the worker is a source of enslavement. Keep that in mind when you countries discuss overseas workers.

That sounds scary.
I asked because you never know where you'll end up as an academic, and working for 1-2 years at e.g. the uni of Riad would sound potentially interesting, but under these conditions...it's something which I need to keep in mind.

 

[NovaKart]

If a school or company does stuff like that often enough they will get a reputation. Teachers should check the esl Internet message boards to see what the reputation of their employer is like. Disgruntled teachers will post messages about bad employers.

 

[warpus]

According to my friend who lives in Qatar, at least there, only the slaves have such issues.. i.e. Indians and others who come to the region for mainly construction and service type jobs that Qataris don't want to do. My friend claims that those from the West who are there teaching or what not are safe from this sort of visa BS - only the slaves are basically.. well, slaves, who can't leave.

Mind you there was a French soccer player recently who wasn't able to leave a country in the region due to some similar visa BS. I forget where exactly that was though and as far as I know his situation got enough exposure to have been since resolved.

 

[NovaKart]

It's a good idea to treat the western workers well. Word gets around in the expat community. I don't really know all that many expats here but I occasionally meet a few and chat with them and I have some idea about the working conditions in most of the schools here. It's probably similar there.

When I was in Turkey I worked for one place that cheated me out of payment and a lot of other people who worked there had problems with them. Now they are begging for teachers. They really shot themselves in the foot because its a part of Turkey in the northeast that is really cold and boring and not many people would want to work there. I know two long term expats in relationships with locals and they would like to work there but won't because of how they were treated and their reputation. They even tried to hire me again which is shocking considering how we ended things. I think the only people working for them now are really unqualified desperate people because I'm in contact with someone working there now.

Workers from third world countries, unfortunately, will probably keep continuing to join exploitative employers because of poverty in their own countries. There's a racist pecking order here. Even in Kurdistan there are workers from Bangladesh, India and Nepal. Recently I was at the residency office and waiting in a line that was small but just wasn't moving with some Indians. A couple Indians in the line got the officers attention and he told them to wait. I got his attention and told him my company and he asked where I was from. When I said I was American he asked why I didn't just come to the front of the line. I think he thought I was from Syria.

 

[Goodfella]

YEs, they know of Hollywood, but not California. They do not know where New York is, but everyone knows of Texas. Over the decades, huge number of Saudis have studied there. They know London and Paris, but could not find Canada or Poland on the map.

Here we have "Literary High Schools," these are the religious ones, and "Science High Schools" for a more normal course of studies. Further some schools are paid for by the government (and are thought of as second-rate) while others are paid for by the oil industry. They have better physical plant (buildings, furniture and so on). Rich kids go to private Western schools.

When we send kids to the Real World for university, we have to give them a year-long "foundation year" of English, and surprisingly math to get them ready. Schools here are quite bad.

That sounds scary and a lot worse than situation in the US.

How religious are they? Do they all think the world is only 6,000 years old? How do women dress? Have you ever witnessed any brutality against women?

 

[dutchfire]

Does anyone play sports?

 

[Paul in Saudi]

Our young guys play some football in the winter, but it is often too hot to do anything outside. Forget Mexico, I have never seen more obesity than I have seen here. Scarier yet is the number of very small young men I see. I read a great article in The Economist few years ago outlining the problem with malnutrition. Expressed that way it is sad and scary as hell.

I have never seen brutality towards women, but in all these years I have spoken to perhaps three Saudi women. In the same vein, I have rarely seen handicapped or "special needs: Saudis. I hate to think of what happens to such people.

Honestly, they are not too religious. Some, perhaps half, go through the motions, but few seem to believe. I am religious, so I find that sort of sad too.

Time to shower and shave.

 

[CavLancer]

How are the Filipinos treated? Are the women house helpers abused?

 

[Goodfella]

Have you ever known any gay people since you've been there?

 

[Paul in Saudi]

Sure, acres of them. Gay people here have much as active a social life as they desire.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

How are the Filipinos treated? Are the women house helpers abused?

Filipinos are the best workers here. Educated, hard-working and cheerful. I often claim the Pinoys are in charge, they just let the Saudis sit at the big empty desks. Things were better when they were more Pinays here. They were about the only single Western (or whatever) ladies available. Usually they were nurses.

Now more and more nurses are Saudis, or other nationalities. In truth that is why we are here, to train our Saudi replacements.

Housemaids are treated terribly. When the Filipinos insisted on a higher minimal wage, the Saudis banned Filipino housemaids and went to Pakistanis. Then they banned Pakistanis too when they asked for too much. There are lots of cases of maids killing themselves or being killed by the housewife.

Bored women at home can be vicious. I saw it in Central America. Horrible stuff.

 

[Goodfella]

Sure, acres of them. Gay people here have much as active a social life as they desire.

I thought it was a capital offense? Are laws not well enforced? Are these people mostly foreigners or Saudis?

 

[CavLancer]

Filipinos are the best workers here. Educated, hard-working and cheerful. I often claim the Pinoys are in charge, they just let the Saudis sit at the big empty desks. Things were better when they were more Pinays here. They were about the only single Western (or whatever) ladies available. Usually they were nurses.

Now more and more nurses are Saudis, or other nationalities. In truth that is why we are here, to train our Saudi replacements.

Housemaids are treated terribly. When the Filipinos insisted on a higher minimal wage, the Saudis banned Filipino housemaids and went to Pakistanis. Then they banned Pakistanis too when they asked for too much. There are lots of cases of maids killing themselves or being killed by the housewife.

Bored women at home can be vicious. I saw it in Central America. Horrible stuff.

Yes I'd heard they are treated pretty badly. I'm surprised they went to Pakistanis, but I guess they are of the same type of Muslim.

I almost hate to ask what the punishment is for murdering ones housemaid...?

 

[Tahuti]

Are Saudi authorities more lenient to Western looking people out of fear of suffering diplomatic incidents than own citizens?